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Old 04-23-2009, 10:05 AM   #1
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Faster than Wait

By basic set rules, if someone has a Wait running, they have the drop on everyone else (except possibly others with a wait running, as covered in MA).

But realistically, that's not going to be a given. If you act fast enough, you could beat the Waiting person's reaction time and outmaneuver them despite their advantaged position.

Is there a rule anywhere to support this? If not, what should it look like?
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:20 AM   #2
Crakkerjakk
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
By basic set rules, if someone has a Wait running, they have the drop on everyone else (except possibly others with a wait running, as covered in MA).

But realistically, that's not going to be a given. If you act fast enough, you could beat the Waiting person's reaction time and outmaneuver them despite their advantaged position.

Is there a rule anywhere to support this? If not, what should it look like?
Assuming the wait was to force you to terminate movement near them, if your active defense is successful you just keep going, right?
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
By basic set rules, if someone has a Wait running, they have the drop on everyone else (except possibly others with a wait running, as covered in MA).

But realistically, that's not going to be a given. If you act fast enough, you could beat the Waiting person's reaction time and outmaneuver them despite their advantaged position.

Is there a rule anywhere to support this? If not, what should it look like?
Since Wait is triggered in the normal combat sequence, a character with higher speed will be the one doing the Waiting. I dont' think it makes sense for a slower character to somehow get the drop on a faster character who's declared a Wait.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23
Since Wait is triggered in the normal combat sequence, a character with higher speed will be the one doing the Waiting. I dont' think it makes sense for a slower character to somehow get the drop on a faster character who's declared a Wait.
In general, yes, but it is possible for a faster character to trigger a slow character's Wait - provided the slower one declared a Wait during the previous "round," and it hasn't expired yet.

I don't think there's any rule to allow one to ignore a Wait, other than not doing what actually triggers it. One could think up one for fake-outs, which might be treated similarly to a Feint/Ruse, but based on Basic Speed instead of DX/IQ. If the Waiting character fails, he either triggers the Wait early or doesn't do so at all (depending on just what the fake-out was). I'd probably give the Waiting character a decent bonus on the quick contest. ETS would give a huge bonus to the Waiting character, but probably only a modest one (if any at all) to the aggressor. For moving so quickly the enemy is unable to react, maybe treat it the same but base it on your Move (that is, your movement for that round - so characters with Enhanced Move and ATR get a benefit from those traits) rather than Basic Speed? I'd probably give the Waiting character a more substantial bonus in this case - you have to be moving pretty bloody fast to get around a Wait!
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk
Assuming the wait was to force you to terminate movement near them, if your active defense is successful you just keep going, right?
Er, yes, I would think so. But that's not being faster than the wait, that's overcoming the wait action when it goes off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figleaf23
Since Wait is triggered in the normal combat sequence, a character with higher speed will be the one doing the Waiting. I dont' think it makes sense for a slower character to somehow get the drop on a faster character who's declared a Wait.
No, the character who starts waiting first will be the one waiting. The faster character gets the chance to wait first, but after the first turn everyone's gotten their chance. The slowest character present can drop a wait on the guy with BS 20, ATR, and ETS, once his turn has come around to set it up.

My basic thought here is that if you're really just that fast, you could for instance quickdraw and shoot someone faster than they could react and perform their Wait (shoot him if he moves).

My first draft notion was using Cascading Waits, but let the person who triggered the waits in on the roll-off. With a hefty penalty, probably at least -10.

Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 04-23-2009 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuedodeuS
In general, yes, but it is possible for a faster character to trigger a slow character's Wait - provided the slower one declared a Wait during the previous "round," and it hasn't expired yet.
The mechanism you're looking for is failed die rolls.

'I waited and he still got the drop on me. Shouldn't have happened, but this time it did.'
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
My basic thought here is that if you're really just that fast, you could for instance quickdraw and shoot someone faster than they could react and perform their Wait (shoot him if he moves).

My first draft notion was using Cascading Waits, but let the person who triggered the waits in on the roll-off. With a hefty penalty, probably at least -10.
Cascading Waits is probably the way to go, with the qualifier that ETS only helps the Waiting character, and an additional penalty. -10 seems a bit much at first glance, but I think you might be onto something. Outdrawing a typical soldier (Guns-12 or so) who already has his weapon pointed at you (a Wait) would therefore require Fast-Draw (Pistol) of 22 to have a 50-50 shot of pulling it off (assuming equal Basic Speeds). Having to be a master at quick-drawing to pull this kind of trick off seems appropriate to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B9anders
The mechanism you're looking for is failed die rolls.

'I waited and he still got the drop on me. Shouldn't have happened, but this time it did.'
Huh? If the soldier with a Wait (shoot him if he tries anything) fails his roll when his target reaches for his weapon, that means the shot missed. It doesn't mean he never fired, which is what Ulzgoroth is trying to model here.
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Last edited by SuedodeuS; 04-23-2009 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
Er, yes, I would think so. But that's not being faster than the wait, that's overcoming the wait action when it goes off.
It's being fast enough to avoid the clumsy swing and keep on going after your real target. I think it'd be pretty hard to balance the ability to take away the wait action of someone else. Especially since the person taking the wait action has to specifically say what triggers their wait and what action they are taking when it triggers.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
Is there a rule anywhere to support this?
Sure. Successful active defense vs their Wait.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Faster than Wait

Why not just house rule that in order to succeed at a wait you must win a contest with the one who triggered the wait?

Say that whoever wins by the largest margin in a roll based heavily on Basic speed, probably with the waiter enjoying a bonus for having the advantage of acting on his terms.
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