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Old 11-19-2014, 05:24 AM   #1
fmultimedia
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Default Help with cinematic shove punch

Hello guys.

One of my players wants his (fantasy/cinematic) martial art style to allow his punches to send people flying backwards.

I want to allow that, but I'm not sure how to model it.

So far, the only thing I could think of was this: a follow-up innate attack that deals knockback only. It would look like this:

Momentum [8]: 4D crushing dmg [20], follow-up (from melee attack technique Momentous Punch) [0%], not wounding [-50%], costs fatigue (2) [-10%].

Martial Art Technique: Momentous Punch, defaults on Boxing-2, Hard, max.=Boxing. If Momentous Punch connects, it deals normal punch damage and then separate 4D that count only towards knockback. Always costs 2 fp.

I am only partially satisfied with this solution, because I really wanted something that worked as a function of the hitter's strength, but I don't know how to.

So, what do you think? Fair? Any other solutions?
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:18 AM   #2
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

Imbuement 1 (Single Skill Only -80%) [2] and Forceful Blow (Unarmed) DX+0 [8] would let him spend 1 FP to roll against DX before striking someone. On success, the knockback of the attack is doubled. See Power-ups 1: Imbuements for more detail.

If I was going down your route, I'd add Double Knockback (+20%) to the Momentum attack. But that's becaues I think huge amounts of knockback are enormously fun in play and encourage them.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

Not exactly the same thing, but the cinematic Push skill allows you to knock enemies back (without dealing damage). Maybe a technique off Push could allow damage to be dealt as well?
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

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Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
Not exactly the same thing, but the cinematic Push skill allows you to knock enemies back (without dealing damage). Maybe a technique off Push could allow damage to be dealt as well?
Add in Power Blow to really send foes flying.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmultimedia View Post
I am only partially satisfied with this solution, because I really wanted something that worked as a function of the hitter's strength, but I don't know how to.

So, what do you think? Fair? Any other solutions?
ST-Based (Limited) [+30%] from Power-Ups 4 will do the job. You can add your thrust damage to the Innate Attack as long as you're not adding more damage than the IA has on its own, and it has a bunch of limitations that aren't going to be an issue if you make it a melee attack.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:03 AM   #6
Kromm
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post

Not exactly the same thing, but the cinematic Push skill allows you to knock enemies back (without dealing damage).
Push is expressly designed for this kind of attack. I think it's the best starting point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post

Maybe a technique off Push could allow damage to be dealt as well?
The Martial Arts technique-design system allows you to specify that an attack trades its basic effects for those of another attack. The examples given are a kick that does knockback instead of damage and a shove that does damage instead of knockback. This kind of tradeoff gives -1 to the technique default. That's definitely where to start!

For a cinematic skill like Push, I'd make replacing "instead" with "as well as" an extra -1. Thus, the Shove Punch technique would default to Push-2, have all the standard enhanced-knockback effects of Push, and also inflict the attacker's usual punching damage (thrust-1 plus any skill bonus for Boxing, Brawling, or Karate). Since the technique is cinematic and fairly powerful, I'd call it Hard to keep everyone honest . . . and of course it couldn't exceed Push skill.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Push is expressly designed for this kind of attack. I think it's the best starting point.

The Martial Arts technique-design system allows you to specify that an attack trades its basic effects for those of another attack. The examples given are a kick that does knockback instead of damage and a shove that does damage instead of knockback. This kind of tradeoff gives -1 to the technique default. That's definitely where to start!

For a cinematic skill like Push, I'd make replacing "instead" with "as well as" an extra -1. Thus, the Shove Punch technique would default to Push-2, have all the standard enhanced-knockback effects of Push, and also inflict the attacker's usual punching damage (thrust-1 plus any skill bonus for Boxing, Brawling, or Karate). Since the technique is cinematic and fairly powerful, I'd call it Hard to keep everyone honest . . . and of course it couldn't exceed Push skill.
Ok thanks a lot for the tips. I'll tell the player and what we work out. Ideally, he would NOT be able to Push out of the Pushing Punch technique, so we'll see what we can do about that.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

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Originally Posted by fmultimedia View Post
Ok thanks a lot for the tips. I'll tell the player and what we work out. Ideally, he would NOT be able to Push out of the Pushing Punch technique, so we'll see what we can do about that.
Give him some kind of disadvantage that says "I push things around by PUNCHING THEM!"
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:16 AM   #9
Kromm
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

Or just invent a specialty of Push called Push (Punch), or whatever sounds good, and say it can only do what I described. In that case, it would work at full skill for the technique I made up and never be able to push without damage. Because it would be marginally better (all the knockback of ordinary Push and punching damage), you might want to call it DX/Very Hard, which amounts to charging a 4-point premium.

If that just doesn't work for you, look at Modifying ST-Based Damage (Powers, p. 146). Double Knockback, +20% should do the trick. For instance, a super with ST 37 would have a thrust damage of 4d. That would cost 20 points as a crushing attack. With a +20% modifier, the point cost for adding Double Knockback would be a whopping 4 points. With that, when the character punched someone, he would do around 4d of damage, but this would be doubled solely for the purpose of finding knockback (Powers, p. 101). Thus, a roll of 14 on the dice would inflict 14 points of damage but do knockback as for 28 points of damage.

Both approaches scale with ST. The latter has the benefit of being 100% by the book. The former requires some creative skill diddling. Either is relatively inexpensive.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Help with cinematic shove punch

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Or just invent a specialty of Push called Push (Punch), or whatever sounds good, and say it can only do what I described. In that case, it would work at full skill for the technique I made up and never be able to push without damage. Because it would be marginally better (all the knockback of ordinary Push and punching damage), you might want to call it DX/Very Hard, which amounts to charging a 4-point premium.

If that just doesn't work for you, look at Modifying ST-Based Damage (Powers, p. 146). Double Knockback, +20% should do the trick. For instance, a super with ST 37 would have a thrust damage of 4d. That would cost 20 points as a crushing attack. With a +20% modifier, the point cost for adding Double Knockback would be a whopping 4 points. With that, when the character punched someone, he would do around 4d of damage, but this would be doubled solely for the purpose of finding knockback (Powers, p. 101). Thus, a roll of 14 on the dice would inflict 14 points of damage but do knockback as for 28 points of damage.

Both approaches scale with ST. The latter has the benefit of being 100% by the book. The former requires some creative skill diddling. Either is relatively inexpensive.
Both options sound great, thanks so much for the suggestions. From what I've been talking to my friend, I think we're going for the second option. Thanks again! :)
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