Do quirks count in the disad total?

arnej · 01-25-2005, 09:05 AM

I've seen things both ways. I'm trying to write an article for Pyramid, and want the
characters to be as 'official' as possible. Any official ruling?

Arne

Brandy · 01-25-2005, 09:20 AM

Assuming that you're referring to 4e, it seems pretty clear from the text of the rules that they do:

Quote:

A disadvantage is anything with a negative point cost, including low attributes, reduced social status, and all the specific disabilities listed in Chapter 3.

arcady · 01-25-2005, 11:19 AM

No.

Including in 4e. This can be verified by looking at the sample characters. Prof Headley hits the limit with his disads and negative stats, and then has five points of quirks. The same is true of Xing La.

This pattern holds in Fantasy as well, consider Brontophonos and Gnaeus. However two of the nonhuman NPCs violate the limit, and neigther of them seems to have taken an actual racial template to justify this... so you can have whatever faith you desire in those characters who do fit the rules in Fantasy. They might do so only by accident...

None of the characters in either source come within five points of disads and then have quirks however, leading that theory to seem less credible.

JackShadow · 01-25-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

No.

Including in 4e. This can be verified by looking at the sample characters. Prof Headley hits the limit with his disads and negative stats, and then has five points of quirks. The same is true of Xing La.

IMO the answer is yes. The written rule is pretty clear and I think overrides example characters.

Luther · 01-25-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

No.

Including in 4e. This can be verified by looking at the sample characters. Prof Headley hits the limit with his disads and negative stats, and then has five points of quirks. The same is true of Xing La.

That's incorrect, read better the write-ups.
They include quirks and are less than the suggested disads limit.

arcady · 01-25-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luther

That's incorrect, read better the write-ups.
They include quirks and are less than the suggested disads limit.

None of the characters in either source come within five points of disads and then have quirks however, leading that theory to seem less credible.

arcady · 01-25-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackShadow

IMO the answer is yes. The written rule is pretty clear and I think overrides example characters.

Actually no.

The rules never list quirks in the kinds of things that count, and they have traditionally NEVER counted, plus do not count in any of the samples. Lending a lot of weight to the idea that they still don't count.

In addition, quirks are specifically noted as not being disadvantage, but rather like them, on page 162.

In further addition, under the example boxes it specifically notes that Dai's 76 points of disads count against his limit; several of the items under which are not actually disads but negative stats that now count (showing that it is current with 4e). The text then never makes that note again when it shows how to buy his quirks two pages later.

Again, under racial template design on page 452 disadvantages get a call out, and a note that racial ones don't count against the limit. Quirks for races are then mentioned under a seperate header, and the only note for them is that they don't count against the -5 limit.

Luther · 01-25-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackShadow

IMO the answer is yes.

By strict reading of rules Quirks should count against disads limit.

IIRC Kromm said he doesn't count quirks against disads limit, however
that wasn't an official stance, only how he liked to use the game.

Quote:

The written rule is pretty clear and I think overrides example characters.

The written rules are clear and the sample characters validate them!

RelFexive · 01-25-2005, 11:46 AM

In my experience, it's always been you can have "X amount of disadvantages + quirks".

Stephane_Theriault · 01-25-2005, 11:46 AM

I don't want to offend anyone, but, who cares? We're talking here about five little traits that have an almost trivial effect in the game (even though they can be fun to play). Including them or not in the disavantage limit (which is a suggestion anyway) is not gonna change that.

As for the sample characters, Professor Headly IS over the limit (if you include quirks):

ST 9 [-10]
Per -1 [-5]
Disadvantages [-85]
Quirks [-5]

For a total of -105, which is 5 more than he should if the quirks count (he is a 200 points characters).

01-25-2005, 09:05 AM	#1
arnej Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ft Collins, CO	Do quirks count in the disad total? I've seen things both ways. I'm trying to write an article for Pyramid, and want the characters to be as 'official' as possible. Any official ruling? Arne

01-25-2005, 11:19 AM	#3
arcady Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Francisco native	Re: Do quirks count in the disad total? No. Including in 4e. This can be verified by looking at the sample characters. Prof Headley hits the limit with his disads and negative stats, and then has five points of quirks. The same is true of Xing La. This pattern holds in Fantasy as well, consider Brontophonos and Gnaeus. However two of the nonhuman NPCs violate the limit, and neigther of them seems to have taken an actual racial template to justify this... so you can have whatever faith you desire in those characters who do fit the rules in Fantasy. They might do so only by accident... None of the characters in either source come within five points of disads and then have quirks however, leading that theory to seem less credible. __________________ Fahla \| Fiction/Art \| Mosquito Cyberpunk \| Gamers of Color Last edited by arcady; 01-25-2005 at 11:38 AM.

01-25-2005, 11:46 AM	#9
RelFexive Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Somewhere Left Of Sensible	Re: Do quirks count in the disad total? In my experience, it's always been you can have "X amount of disadvantages + quirks". __________________ "My God - you're like a trained ape. Without the training." "Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all..."

01-25-2005, 11:46 AM	#10
Stephane_Theriault Join Date: Aug 2004	Re: Do quirks count in the disad total? I don't want to offend anyone, but, who cares? We're talking here about five little traits that have an almost trivial effect in the game (even though they can be fun to play). Including them or not in the disavantage limit (which is a suggestion anyway) is not gonna change that. As for the sample characters, Professor Headly IS over the limit (if you include quirks): ST 9 [-10] Per -1 [-5] Disadvantages [-85] Quirks [-5] For a total of -105, which is 5 more than he should if the quirks count (he is a 200 points characters).