Monster level + bonuses

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by TheMunchkinKing

Level 3 Monster
If you play Baby (-5) on the monster is becomes level 1 but you treat is as a combat strength of (-2)?

No; this is the part that's changed. The old way - which is in line with what's printed on the card now - was that Baby affected the Monster's Level, so a Level 3 Monster with Baby on it would be a Level 1 monster, since 3 minus 5 is less than 1 and Monsters should be at least Level 1. The new way is that a Level 3 Monster with Baby on it is a Level 3 Monster whose combat strength has been reduced by 5, to -2.

In essence: Ignore the "(minimum level 1)" on negative Monster Enhancers, and read all Monster Enhancers as affecting the Monster's combat strength in general instead of its Level specifically. I would expect that errata to this effect will be posted sometime soon.

Originally Posted by TheMunchkinKing

In the past, the way we've run it you would face a level 3 monster and baby it and it would become level 1... then if someone applied an Ancient to the monster it would be level 11. We take the order in which the cards are played into account in this situation. Basically, if you play baby on a creature that can't lose all 5 levels you're giving up the difference. So for us it becomes an Ancient Baby Level 11 Monster, not and Ancient Baby Level 8 one.

As far as I know, that was never the intent. Any player should be able to look at the table at any time during a combat and add up the combat strengths on either side to get a consistent answer, whether he knows the order of play or not.

Or, for your example, 3-5+10 = 3+10-5 = 8. Even before this new change, the intent was that the "(minimum level 1)" clause would apply after all enhancers had been included.

[TheMunchkinKing]

So in essence you are no longer effecting the printed level on the card, you're simply calculating combat levels, which can be negative. The printed level (in this case 3) will always be the monster's "Level"?

Also, if you apply a monster's modifier (+5 against wizards) is that changing the monster's level or it's combat level?

Thanks Bob.

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by TheMunchkinKing

So in essence you are no longer effecting the printed level on the card, you're simply calculating combat levels, which can be negative. The printed level (in this case 3) will always be the monster's "Level"?

As Arthur would say, "Exactamundo" - except that "combat levels" can be a misleading term, which is where "combat strength" comes from. Level plus Enhancers plus bonuses minus penalties (plus whatever else I've forgotten to list) equals combat strength.

Originally Posted by TheMunchkinKing

Also, if you apply a monster's modifier (+5 against wizards) is that changing the monster's level or it's combat level?

The latter.

[RL]

Does this change affect things like the use of the Monster Whacker class? Previously the monster enhancers would actually change the monster's level (and thus potentially change the bonus/penalty associated with Monster Whacker).

EDIT: Monster Whackers get a +2 bonus against monsters of level 10 and below, and a -2 penalty against monsters of level 16 and above.

[Andrew Hackard]

The Level printed on a monster's card is the Level for all class, race, etc. abilities that rely on a monster's Level. Modifiers change the monster's combat strength, not its Level (or "base level," if you prefer that term).

[TheMunchkinKing]

Shew! :) Okay, i think I got it now. Thanks for the explainations.

Has the FAQ been updated with the new Combat Strength designations? Or is it somewhere that I can print it out for my group so they can all get up to speed with it?

[Gryphon]

Originally Posted by TheMunchkinKing

Has the FAQ been updated with the new Combat Strength designations? Or is it somewhere that I can print it out for my group so they can all get up to speed with it?

I an joing to this question. When the Changes will affect official FAQ and Errata?

Second question (Edit: SOLVED):
MIB saying that order of cards played during combat is not important it all now. So I want to know: how do "Clone" cards working now?
The way they worked before was like they doubled monster with all its bonuses, so we had TWO monsters in game. Any bonus played after "Clone" card taked effect only to ONE of them. It is still work that way?

Third question:
What if Monster's level is 1, and his Combat strength -4. How do "Clone" card work on it now? It is 2 monsters, and combat power of both is... -4 + (-4) = -8? Like that?

[RL]

Originally Posted by Gryphon

The way they worked before was like they doubled monster with all its bonuses, so we had TWO monsters in game. Any bonus played after "Clone" card taked effect only to ONE of them.

That is not the way the rules worked before. After the Clone card is played, any additional modifiers that affect one monster will also affect its Clone/Mate/etc. This is from the FAQ:

Q. What if a monster gets a Mate, or you get a Doppelganger, and then somebody backstabs you or plays potions on one side or the other?
A. A Mate is an exact duplicate of the monster. A Doppleganger is an exact duplicate of the player. Anything that changes the level of one, changes the level of the other. (But if a monster is completely abolished - for instance, Pollymorphed - its Mate is unaffected because it's a separate monster.)

EDIT: Although I'm still a bit confused about cards that add a bonus to a "side" and not an individual monster.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Gryphon

I an joing to this question. When the Changes will affect official FAQ and Errata?

It's not at the top of the list of things we need done, and our computer guys' time is always shorter than the projects we want them to do. We're well aware this change needs to happen, and Erik and I have been kicking around a full revision of the FAQ (if nothing else, it needs to be reorganized). It'll happen when it happens.

[ArcadianRefugee]

Originally Posted by Chad Cloman

Although I'm still a bit confused about cards that add a bonus to a "side" and not an individual monster.

"Side" simply meant that you could use it on a Munchkin as well as a Monster, but it still only affects an individual.