Defense Bonus

[ssveter]

What would the cost of a defense bonus be if it were granted by an advantage. My thinking would be something like 30 points a level. Kinda along the lines of the cost of Enhanced Parry.

[Landwalker]

Originally Posted by ssveter

What would the cost of a defense bonus be if it were granted by an advantage. My thinking would be something like 30 points a level. Kinda along the lines of the cost of Enhanced Parry.

Well, you run into a problem because the current pricing of active defense bonuses as advantages is pretty wonky. Consider:

Enhanced Parry (One Weapon): 5 CP
Enhanced Parry (All Weapons): 10 CP
Enhanced Block: 5 CP
Enhanced Dodge: 15 CP
Total Cost of +1 to all active defenses, using Enhanced Defenses: 30 CP

Combat Reflexes (+1 to all active defenses and +1 to Fast Draw, +2 to Fright Checks, +6 to all IQ rolls to recover from stun and stun, and you and all of your friends get +1 to +2 on initiative to avoid surprise): 15 CP.

Personally, I've never quite understood why there's that sort of gulf. It seems like Combat Reflexes is woefully underpriced, or Enhanced Dodge is brutally overpriced. Considering that Enhanced Parry and Enhanced Block both seem about right, pricing-wise, my inclination is to lean towards the former possibility.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Landwalker

It seems like Combat Reflexes is woefully underpriced

This. And it's intentional: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...90&postcount=5

I would have no problem with removing the +1 to all defences for it and still let it cost 15 pts. It is still well worth it but now it actually represent what it say it represent. Instead of being a cheap way to get a bonus to defence that every character will buy no matter if appropriate or not.
for instance take a super speedster with very high defences. He would always get CR first even though his character has never seen, let alone been in an actual fight.
When a trait becomes so good people people can't be persuaded to NOT take it, then its TOO good IMO.

[malloyd]

Partly I think there's a missing active defense - avoid one particular attack. The reason Dodge is so expensive is you can use it any number of times, and it's not considered to involve any specific movements in response to any particular attack. If there were an avoidance option to, or which replaced, a parry - preventing any contact with that one attack but also not setting up stuff like aggressive parries or disarms and taking repeat use penalties just like parry, it would make sense to improve it more cheaply.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Partly I think there's a missing active defense - avoid one particular attack. The reason Dodge is so expensive is you can use it any number of times, and it's not considered to involve any specific movements in response to any particular attack. If there were an avoidance option to, or which replaced, a parry - preventing any contact with that one attack but also not setting up stuff like aggressive parries or disarms and taking repeat use penalties just like parry, it would make sense to improve it more cheaply.

All-Out Dodge? +2 to that one defense, forgoing the ability to use Dodge for the rest of your turn? Committed Dodge, +1 to one particular dodge, but you're at -2 to all other dodges for the rest of your turn.

You might say you can only use this option if you've not elected dodge yet, to prevent the final dodge you do (or think you'll do) to always be this.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

All-Out Dodge? +2 to that one defense, forgoing the ability to use Dodge for the rest of your turn? Committed Dodge, +1 to one particular dodge, but you're at -2 to all other dodges for the rest of your turn.

Maybe increase the bonus and have it work as an additional form of Retreat so it can't be combined with Retreat?

Nonmotile Retreat?

[Ji ji]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

All-Out Dodge? +2 to that one defense, forgoing the ability to use Dodge for the rest of your turn? Committed Dodge, +1 to one particular dodge, but you're at -2 to all other dodges for the rest of your turn.

You might say you can only use this option if you've not elected dodge yet, to prevent the final dodge you do (or think you'll do) to always be this.

I am curious about dodge-mechanic game design. Perhaps you can explain me it.
I've played 3rd an 4th edition, and always seems me odd that subsequent dodges have no penalty (or -1 cumulative penalty with MA optional rule): they're different dodges in one single second. There is some simulative idea that I didn't undestand, or is a gamestic-oriented rule dated back to original gladiator combat system?

[aesir23]

30 points for Defense Bonus is canonical in GURPS Supers.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Maz

Instead of being a cheap way to get a bonus to defence that every character will buy no matter if appropriate or not.

I went for over a year with Mrugnak without bothering to buy Combat Reflexes. It just wasn't necessary, despite his being a frontline fighter. *shrug*

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I went for over a year with Mrugnak without bothering to buy Combat Reflexes. It just wasn't necessary, despite his being a frontline fighter. *shrug*

Pft. Mrugnak shrug. Back when ballista hit Mrugnak, Mrugnak shrug. Tower fall on Mrugnak, Mrugnak shrug. Hmm. :) [quote][size=1]