Effects of Mecha Mooks on warfare and society?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

This is a question on the border of the cinematic and the realistic. In a retrotech society (say, retro-TL9), what would be the long-term effects of having moderately cheap Mecha Mooks available. I'm thinking IQ and DX about 8 NAI, and a prohibition against having skills above level 12. Also, I'm assuming that outside of near-sapient mooks, computers are truly retro, in the style of Solar Patrol. (I.e. no super-targeting programs or the like; no miniaturisation of robot brains below the size of a human neural system.)

So . . . how would that plausibly change both warfare and civilian society, assuming that we take the concept for granted?

(This question is heavily influenced by VUASO Machine Lords, but can also be applied to other settings.)

Thanks in advance!

[Purple Haze]

Your link is broken.

[ericthered]

Well, a lot of this will depend on three issues:

are the robots seen as "moral" to kill?

how well do the robots keep? this includes loss to both wear and tear and to advances in technology. If they keep poorly then war becomes something you have to prepare for and you focus on decapitating your opponent's factories. If they keep well then you will have robot armies stashed all over the place and military power is about the amount of effort you've put into it.

how expensive is it to make a new robot? If they're comparatively cheap swarm tactics become effective. If they're too expensive its not worth it unless you are very rich.

[Astromancer]

If robots are persons like Bender or Data, then it is evil to kill them without an overwhelming reason, like self-defense ect.

But mecha mooks, would they be persons at all?

Cheap non-humanoid robots would be the most practical Mecha Mooks. Clouds of electic insects or vast hoards of robospiders. Tiny, invisible, and deadly, would be a good strategy.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

If robots are persons like Bender or Data, then it is evil to kill them without an overwhelming reason, like self-defense ect.

But mecha mooks, would they be persons at all?

Cheap non-humanoid robots would be the most practical Mecha Mooks. Clouds of electic insects or vast hoards of robospiders. Tiny, invisible, and deadly, would be a good strategy.

I think we're dealing with semi-persons here: they have intelligence, but its considered inferior to human.

I'm not sure that the tech allows really small robots.

The most effective may not be humanoid though: miniature modern vehicles would be fairly effective.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think we're dealing with semi-persons here: they have intelligence, but its considered inferior to human.

If they are full/real persons, it might be iffy. But few people see killing war horses or attack dogs as seriously evil, in the context of a battle.

I'm not sure that the tech allows really small robots.

The most effective may not be humanoid though: miniature modern vehicles would be fairly effective.

Agreed.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think we're dealing with semi-persons here: they have intelligence, but its considered inferior to human.

I'm not sure that the tech allows really small robots.

The most effective may not be humanoid though: miniature modern vehicles would be fairly effective.

Yes, inferior (in intelligence and creativity) persons. That's how the Machine Lords see droids, anyway.(A Quirk for the race, which implies most people just see machines) There's a certain element of paternalism at work in this.
I think Star Wars droids would be a good basis for the ML droids. But the Machine Lords aren't effin' idiots like the Trade Federation of the prequels; they would use their battle droids in a much smarter way. Droids can be pretty smart, but they lack full human creativity and free will. C3PO has a distinct personality, but he follows his protocol droid programming. He can’t just decide to be something else. R2D2 doesn't write poetry; he's an Astromech, so he fixes stuff.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

But mecha mooks, would they be persons at all?

Depends on how much is programed into them. The mere fact that they are shaped like humans is irrelevant; a mannikin is also shaped like a human. They would probably be no more then tanks. After all one of the purposes of building Mecha's is to spare humans the trouble. If Mecha's are programed to an intelligence level equiv to humans that takes away some of the point and you should just make battlesuits.

Also there are disadvantages to intelligence in battle. Self-preservation instinct should be limited to the tactical consideration of a warbot's masters and a warbot capability of contracting PTSD has no advantages at all. Not to mention that intelligent warbots might mutiny.

[Kalzazz]

My off and on Space Opera Fantasy setting includes the Star Republic's 'Munchkin' Infantry Combat Robot

The Munchkin is a Cheap TL 10 Child Body Android stats wise, so its ST 10 and thus weaker than a many human soldiers, and give it HT 9 also (its cheap and breaks easy), but it can still wield many normal human weapons

The Star Republic also makes Munchkin sized armor and such to give them

[dcarson]

If you want bad things, if cheap enough they squeeze the low end of the job market. Maybe lots of servants also.