Effects of Mecha Mooks on warfare and society?

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by dcarson

If you want bad things, if cheap enough they squeeze the low end of the job market. Maybe lots of servants also.

In Machine Lord society, VUASO, that's not a bad thing at all. The droids form the lower classes.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

So . . . how would that plausibly change both warfare and civilian society, assuming that we take the concept for granted?

In a world where the people in charge do not posses the severely flawed intelligence of those who do not read the Evil Overlord List cheap robots would have to be _good_ for some thing at some level.

There';s no such thing as a weapons system so cheap you can afford to lose because you chose it.

If all these things are trusted to do is mop the floors (and not at nuclear power plants eeither) they won't have much impact on socieity.

So, what are they good for?

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

I like the image of a mecha walking the dog.

This may be less imaginary than we think. The "Big Dog" 'droid prototype does a pretty good job walking on uneven terrain -- and IIRC that's the main problem with creating a combat robot. There are sensors galore that can pick out a human target from the weeds -- and all you have to do is hook up a functional CPU and suitable weapons' system and bang! you're on your way.

Now, of course, there would be considerable practical problems but they would, IMHO, be fixable. So -- if you had a dumb killer robot what would you do with it?

I wouldn't want, for example, certain Middle Eastern leaders to have them. They could be the ultimate Hessian, happy to mow down your disgruntled and riotous civilians without remorse, pity, or fear. No danger of any hidden disloyalty or rebel sympathy in your goon squads. They probably wouldn't work well on the battlefield but in the streets & alleys against unarmed civilians . . .

[kdtipa]

The impact of robotics like that is an interesting subject. And I hate to point to anime to begin my response, but Gundam Wing addresses this to some degree specifically with respect to using robots in wars. The series goes on to suggest that if robots replace soldiers we'll lose something. Wars will be entirely push button, and there won't be as much meaning. A human soldier dying means a lot more than a piece of equipment. So battles fought between pieces of equipment won't mean anything. And when the person pushing the button gets to the point where the robots reach human targets... the person pushing the button won't be there face to face with the opponents... their decision will not feel like it has any moral weight. They won't be forced to face the decision to take life in the same way. So the series suggests that we would actually become more cruel when other things do the fighting for us.

I think it's a fair possibility that the people in control of these robotic forces would lose sight of the importance of the decision to take life.

In addition, I think it's probable that we'd see a bit of what we see today. In World War I and II, the entire population of the countries involved were affected directly. Many had to do work to support the war effort. Everyone was involved enough to understand the weight of the fighting... to understand the meaning.

Now, we send troops all over the place to face danger, and I honestly don't know why certain decisions are made. Maybe there's good reason. Maybe there isn't. And the news media doesn't know any better. We (as Americans) aren't as involved, so the fighting doesn't mean as much to us. It's just a vague concept to us as individuals unless we join the military or at least have a close relative or friend in the military to give us a reason to care. I suspect that if all a country is doing is risking robots, the people would care even less. I think people would only care about their tax money funding it.

I don't know if any of that helped... but I do like thinking about this.

[Ulzgoroth]

It seems like the obvious thing to do with mecha mooks is take about every soldier you've got who can manage tactical thinking for more than one body and give them a fire team of mooks.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

In a world where the people in charge do not posses the severely flawed intelligence of those who do not read the Evil Overlord List cheap robots would have to be _good_ for some thing at some level.

There';s no such thing as a weapons system so cheap you can afford to lose because you chose it.

If all these things are trusted to do is mop the floors (and not at nuclear power plants eeither) they won't have much impact on socieity.

So, what are they good for?

There is such a thing as a weapon system so cheap you can afford to use a lot of it without trading away the other things you actually need, though.

As for society, they'd be dumb, but not the kind of dumb that leads to humans operating heavy machinery while drunk, skipping critical steps out of laziness or haste, and generally being reckless. They could probably displace a lot of unskilled labor if a bot is cheaper.

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

I wouldn't want, for example, certain Middle Eastern leaders to have them. They could be the ultimate Hessian, happy to mow down your disgruntled and riotous civilians without remorse, pity, or fear. No danger of any hidden disloyalty or rebel sympathy in your goon squads. They probably wouldn't work well on the battlefield but in the streets & alleys against unarmed civilians . . .

I'd suggest that streets and alleys are in many respects the most challenging battlefields, where lack of smarts is most likely to hurt you.

Mecha Mooks would still be good there, for their expendability and, depending on one's goals, the other traits you mention.

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'd suggest that streets and alleys are in many respects the most challenging battlefields, where lack of smarts is most likely to hurt you. . .

Concur for all forms of guerrilla war or combat where you need restraint.

But if you're simply trying to exterminate rebellious civilians, I think the problem gets simpler. Order to Mook-Droids -- "If it's organic, kill it." Yeah, you'll lose a fair number of D-mooks -- but the civilians will, in most part, be dead or fled.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Dune would be an example, but remember, the setting is meant to be mythological. As well as useing the Bible and the Koran, it also draws on the Arthurian myths. In many ways Dune's galaxy is closer to ancient Troy or Emain Macha than a modern society.

Sure,maybe. I also see a lot of elements inspired by things from Medieval and Early Modern Europe in the Dune Universe.

But nothing in the OP's initial post implies a 'modern society' (whatever that is).

The VUASO setting, which is related to this thread, is set almost four centuries in the future and involves multiple alien and extraterrestrial human cultures.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

Concur for all forms of guerrilla war or combat where you need restraint.

But if you're simply trying to exterminate rebellious civilians, I think the problem gets simpler. Order to Mook-Droids -- "If it's organic, kill it." Yeah, you'll lose a fair number of D-mooks -- but the civilians will, in most part, be dead or fled.

If you're really unrestrained, you can just demolish the area with bombardment and, if you feel the need, sweep the rubble with (mecha mook) flamethrower teams.

However, if you're going to leave enough standing for the combat to be urban, you're sending your battle droids into an environment with extremely complex cover and concealment possibilities and pathing, giving the opposition just about the best possible environment to outwit and get the drop on your bots.

Which still may be better than doing the same sweep with human troops because those are going to run into the same problem, and expendability may outweigh competence.