Passive Defense and 4e

[Glimmerman]

To recreate PD in 4e you could subtract PD of an armor from an attacker's successes instead of adding to the armor-user's defense roll. If Successes-PD is less than zero, the blow has been deflected from the armor after defender's unsuccessful or non-existing defense roll.

For more tweaking you can readjust PD penalties: hard leather/wood has PD 1, chain/scale has PD 2 and basic plate armor has PD 3*.

For even more tweaking for each 3 dice of damage that an attack does, it eliminates 1 point of PD from the target's armor. And 1-handed crushing weapon removes PD penalty by 1, 2-handed by 2.

*PD 4 for TL4 Maximilian armor with more curves and narrower ridges (ribbed plate), which creates better deflecting angles.
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Glimmerman
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[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

And the +3 defense aura that everybody has.

That's not an aura, its part of the formula. They could have just as well said that dodge is 1.5 x Basic Speed and parry/block is skill-4

A weapon glancing off armour is one possible description of failing to do enough damage to penetrate.

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by Bruno

That's again, not "passive". It only protects you when actively defending.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

That's not an aura, its part of the formula. They could have just as well said that dodge is 1.5 x Basic Speed and parry/block is skill-4

A weapon glancing off armour is one possible description of failing to do enough damage to penetrate.

I should've put a smile there :-(
Yes,I know it, like DB, is not passive. But the function of this +3 plus the DB is pretty much replacing PD. Pretty much like an active version of passive defense.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

That's not an aura, its part of the formula. They could have just as well said that dodge is 1.5 x Basic Speed and parry/block is skill-4

I use both of these. The skill-4 is one part of tbone's FEND rules; Parry and Block can be improved per weapon as techniques. Actually for Dodge, it should be 1.6 x Basic Speed to get an exact 8.

These resolve identically at Basic Speed 5.00 (human average) and skill 10. This puts low skill combatants at a significant disadvantage vs high skill combatants (which makes more sense to me); the Dodge change makes Dodge scale linearly with Basic Speed, which makes much more sense to me than a flat +3. And yet within the normal human range of values there isn't too much difference from one another.

[elco2]

There is a PD stat in the handcuffs section of GURPS Mysteries (4e). What is that?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by elco2

There is a PD stat in the handcuffs section of GURPS Mysteries (4e). What is that?

That seems to be third edition Passive Defense. Mysteries is a rather early 4e book, first published in 2005, and PD seems to have leaked through.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by johndallman

That seems to be third edition Passive Defense. Mysteries is a rather early 4e book, first published in 2005, and PD seems to have leaked through.

That's because the handcuff stats were lifted straight from GURPS Cops (3e).

elco2, you should use the stats from High-Tech (4e):

Handcuffs (TL6). Metal, key-locking cuffs give -5 to Escape.
DR 4, HP 6. $50, 0.5 lb. LC4.

[smurf]

I am just glad it has gone from 4e.

Even if they were mooks all out attacking on 14 (it may have been less), the shield PD bonus was hard. The mook would only hit the character if the skill roll was less that -x of the PD of the shield, otherwise the mook would hit the shield.

But also the mooks could hide behind the character's shield and there would be a penalty for the character to hit the mook, usually -x PD of the shield.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by smurf

Even if they were mooks all out attacking on 14 (it may have been less), the shield PD bonus was hard.

If the character is using active defences, then isn't the "Defense Bonus" effectively the same as the "Passive Defence" in 3e?

The primary difference seems to be that DB is of no help if you don't make a defense while PD allowed a defense roll even if you did not defend (like if it was a surprise attack, or you were using AOA)

Originally Posted by smurf

The mook would only hit the character if the skill roll was less that -x of the PD of the shield, otherwise the mook would hit the shield.

Isn't that how the cover penalty currently works in 4e?

I thought PD in 3e meant you didn't modify the attacker's roll and instead treated it like a free block or a free parry, but if you didn't actually make an active defence then the PD alone was rolled against instead of PD+skill/2

Originally Posted by smurf

But also the mooks could hide behind the character's shield and there would be a penalty for the character to hit the mook, usually -x PD of the shield.

I hadn't thought of that... wouldn't a mook normally have to disarm you, pick up the shield and then ready the shield to benefit from either its PD (3e) or DB (4e) ?

I'm curious where I can find the rule of it being harder to hit a mook by them trying to use your shield's cover against you. It sounds pretty cool.