How are point totals for unknown enemies calculated?

[ObliviousSage]

The Enemy disadvantage means there's a person or group of people out to get you. One of the modifiers for this disadvantage is:

Unknown: You know you have an Enemy, but you have no idea who it is. Tell the GM the power level of your Enemy. He will create the Enemy in secret and give you no details whatsoever. The advantage of surprise increases your Enemy's effective power level, and hence its disadvantage value. -5 points

It seems pretty clear that the GM will determine the enemy's intent and frequency.

My question is, do the multipliers for intent & frequency affect the points I get from this disadvantage? My GM argues that it will take him a while to come up with the enemy, so I just treat it as a 1x multiplier for both intent & frequency, and he'll come up with intent & frequency later without applying them to the points I get. He points to the "give you no details whatsoever" part of the description.

I argue that character creation can wait a bit, and depending on the enemy I might end up deserving considerably more or less points than I would get for assuming a cumulative 1x multiplier. Even knowing the multiplier won't really tell me anything about the enemy: a low multiplier could represent an enemy with no real harmful intent but a very high appearance frequency, or it could represent a deadly foe who only shows up rarely.

By recommendation, I reposted this here from rpg.stackexchange.

[Dragondog]

Unknown modifies the point cost of the Enemy's Power. As I see it, it doesn't affect Intent and Frequency, the player still picks those as part of character creation.

The GM then creates the enemy, but does, in my view as a GM, not decide its point cost

[Trainik]

Obligatory response: The GM's word is final.

However, if I were the GM, I would try to work things so that the point total stayed reasonable. So, if I wanted very high intent and high frequency, I would drop the point value of the enemy to compensate, or vice versa, all without telling the player.

Edit:
I also like this interpretation:

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Unknown modifies the point cost of the Enemy's Power. As I see it, it doesn't affect Intent and Frequency, the player still picks those as part of character creation.

All the GM does is design the enemy.

[trooper6]

Here's how I've always done it and seen it done with secret everything: You say, "GM, I'd like a 15cp Secret Enemy!" (That is -10cp for the Enemy, -5cp for the Secret).

The GM then makes the enemy and can do anything that ends up being -10/-5cp.

So your enemy could be: A young kid (-5) who thinks you killed his father and is out for revenge (Hunter x1) and who shows up Quite often (12, x2)
Or: You Have and Evil Twin who is more capable than you and has abilities you don't (-20), and who is a Rival (x1/2) and who shows up Fairly often (9, x1)
Or: A small group of Cultists (-20) are Stalking You (Watcher, x1/4) because they think you are the Chosen One and they show up Quite often (12, x2)

In all instances that ends up the same value. You pick the final cp total, the GM does the rest.

[ObliviousSage]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Here's how it goes: You say, "GM, I'd like a 15cp Secret Enemy!" (That is -10cp for the Enemy, -5cp for the Secret).

The GM then makes the enemy and can do anything that ends up being -10/-5cp.

So your enemy could be: A young kid (-5) who thinks you killed his father and is out for revenge (Hunter x1) and who shows up Quite often (12, x2)
Or: You Have and Evil Twin who is more capable than you and has abilities you don't (-20), and who is a Rival (x1/2) and who shows up Fairly often (9, x1)
Or: A small group of Cultists (-20) are Stalking You (Watcher, x1/4) because they think you are the Chosen One and they show up Quite often (12, x2)

In all instances that ends up the same value. All you pick is what the final cp total is, the GM does the rest.

Unknown explicitly says you pick the power level.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by ObliviousSage

Unknown explicitly says you pick the power level.

I have always interpreted that to mean the Power Level of the Disadvantage Enemy, not of the power level of the person that is the enemy. This matches how Secret Advantages, Secret Patrons, and Secret Disadvantages work. B120 notes for the secret Disad: "Choose a point value and tell the GM. The GM will select a disad- vantage and give you its value plus an additional -5 points (e.g., Unluckiness, normally worth -10 points, gives -15 points as a secret dis- advantage) . . . but he will not give you any hints as to what it is!"

[ObliviousSage]

Originally Posted by trooper6

I have always interpreted that to mean the Power Level of the Disadvantage Enemy, not of the power level of the person that is the enemy. This matches how Secret Advantages, Secret Patrons, and Secret Disadvantages work. B120 notes for the secret Disad: "Choose a point value and tell the GM. The GM will select a disad- vantage and give you its value plus an additional -5 points (e.g., Unluckiness, normally worth -10 points, gives -15 points as a secret dis- advantage) . . . but he will not give you any hints as to what it is!"

OK, the reference to Secret Disadvantage convinced my GM. Thanks trooper6!

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by ObliviousSage

OK, the reference to Secret Disadvantage convinced my GM. Thanks trooper6!

You're welcome! Glad I could help!

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Here's how I've always done it and seen it done with secret everything: You say, "GM, I'd like a 15cp Secret Enemy!" (That is -10cp for the Enemy, -5cp for the Secret).

The GM then makes the enemy and can do anything that ends up being -10/-5cp.

So your enemy could be: A young kid (-5) who thinks you killed his father and is out for revenge (Hunter x1) and who shows up Quite often (12, x2)
Or: You Have and Evil Twin who is more capable than you and has abilities you don't (-20), and who is a Rival (x1/2) and who shows up Fairly often (9, x1)
Or: A small group of Cultists (-20) are Stalking You (Watcher, x1/4) because they think you are the Chosen One and they show up Quite often (12, x2)

In all instances that ends up the same value. You pick the final cp total, the GM does the rest.

That would work, and I may do it this way in the future.

Originally Posted by ObliviousSage

Unknown explicitly says you pick the power level.

This is how I've always done it: "I want a Powerful Organization (Hunter) that comes up on a 9 or less as my Secret Enemy."

Then the GM invents the Organization-you know their power level, their frequency, and that they want to do you direct harm.

But, you don't know who's after you--you don't know where they're based, what their motives are, what special abilities they might have, and who you can trust. Which is certainly worth the 5 points.

In my opinion, this works fine as well.

It all depends on how specific your concept is: If your concept is "my character is being hunted by a shadowy organization, but I don't know who they are or what they want", then use the method I just described. If your concept is "Someone or something is working against me but I don't have a clue" than use Trooper6's method.

[kirbwarrior]

In case it matters, I've seen some really cool twists on Secret Enemies, specifically:

Hunted - You are on the bounty list. You have no idea who is after you, but you know someone always is, and they are around as good as you are.

This was just a Secret Enemy with Hunter, Equal Value, Always, and secret. You knew that someone was after you and why, but that price on your head keeps getting bigger and bigger each time you kill a hunter.