Blending Conan Races - Human or Not?

[Clipper]

When blending Conan with sets that have non-human races, are the Conan Races considered 'human' or not?

The Conan core set rules have two statements regarding the humanity of the Races. These are:

Originally Posted by Conan Rules

All Munchkin Conan characters are human unless you are combining sets that include non-human Races.

The four Races in this set are all “human” in Munchkin terms, but with a Half-Breed card, you can be an elf Stygian or a halfling Zamoran or whatever . . .

The former seems to say that they work like other Races and that you are only human when you have no Race card in play. However, it could also be saying that you are definitely human in Munchkin Conan, but once you start blending sets, you may not be any more (when you play a non-human race).

The latter seems to state that the Munchkin Conan Races still allow you to use 'Usable by Human Only' Items in Munchkin and so on as in the terms of the game of Munchkin, they are all 'human'. I can't see what it really is meant to mean otherwise.

My gut instinct tells me that the Conan Races are not human, simply because that's how humanity has always worked, but if this is the case, what does the statement about being 'human in Munchkin terms' mean?

[Mister Ed]

Methinks they could have easily avoided this issue by calling them something other than Races. They seem like they SHOULD be more akin to "Loyalties" in Impossible or "Accents" in Booty- distinctions of nationality among all human characters. To have all of them count as human for the purposes of card interactions, yet still qualify as races in their own right, seems unnecessarily problematic.

Though really, how many cards specifically refer to humans? I don't think there are THAT many.

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

Though really, how many cards specifically refer to humans? I don't think there are THAT many.

Doing a search of my database (which may have errors), Fantasy has 14 cards that include the text 'human', and only half of those will be affected by the eventual ruling in this thread. The unaffected cards that include the text 'human' are:

• Curse! Lose Your Race
• Shrieking Geek
• Curse! Temporary Amnesia
• Grow Two Feet
• Dungeon of Elvish Excess
• 1/3-Breed
• Epic Junior

The ones that will be affected:

• Swiss Army Polearm
• Bad-Ass Bandana
• Grassy Gnoll
• Were-Turtle
• Giant Cockroach
• Extra Feat
• Pinball Lizard

The affected cards are mostly Usable only by humans or monsters that get bonuses fighting humans, except Were-Turtle, which would be the only card that is difficult to figure out if the Conan races are considered to be human as well.

[Brf]

I think it is trying to tell you that the Conan races are races as far as Munchkin is concerned, but if you could in-real-life look physically at a Conan character, they would be physically human.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by Brf

I think it is trying to tell you that the Conan races are races as far as Munchkin is concerned, but if you could in-real-life look physically at a Conan character, they would be physically human.

I'd agree, except for the rules use of the phrase " 'Human' in Munchkin terms" to describe the Conan races. That seems to be saying that they are not JUST human appearing in "real life" but "Human" for the purposes of the application of Munchkin rules and card interactions.

[The Big Boo]

If your playing Munchkin Conan on it's own then it doesn't matter too much if your race is human or not

Originally Posted by Munchkin Conan Rules

(Note that in original Munchkin, you can belong to a nonhuman Race. All Munchkin Conan characters are human unless you are combining sets that include non-human Races.)

I think what they are saying ^above^ is that based on the pictures on the cards and of what we know of the Conan universe the Cimmerian, Stygian, Kush ite, and Zamoran races are all human the same as English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish races are also all human, However if you do blend this with another game that has non human races then you should NOT treat yourself as human for the purposes of the cards Clipper has mentioned when you have one of the Conan races. That keeps the rules simple and no one has to remember anything skewed!

Therefore...

Originally Posted by Munchkin Conan Rules

The four Races in this set are all “human” in Munchkin terms, but with a Half-Breed card, you can be an elf Stygian or a halfling Zamoran or whatever . . .

...is the part that I think is making everything unclear, I had assumed it meant that if you have one of the conan races and you become Epic you get the Human Epic abilities,

But now that I have read these 2 quotes together I'm even more confused then when I started.

[PK]

You quoted it yourself:

"All Munchkin Conan characters are human unless you are combining sets that include non-human Races."

That covers this unambiguously. It's an "if-then/else" sentence:

If you combining sets that include non-human Races, then Conan Races are non-human . . . else Conan Races are human.

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

That covers this unambiguously. It's an "if-then/else" sentence:

It can also be read as saying that if you are only playing Conan and other sets without non-human Races, then all characters are definitely human. But if you blend with non-human Races, then your character might be non-human (i.e., not all characters are human).

There lies the ambiguity. Reading it that way, it supports the alternative idea.

I can't twist the second statement to support the first, though, as much as I'd like to.

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

If you combining sets that include non-human Races, then Conan Races are non-human . . . else Conan Races are human.

I must disagree; "characters" are not "Races."

In a pure Munchkin Conan game, all the characters are human because all the Races in the set are varieties of human. In a blended game, some characters may get Races like Dwarf or Elf that make those characters not human. That doesn't turn the ones from the Munchkin Conan set into nonhuman Races, though.

[AaronH]

I see it as the races being definitively human.

As the rules say, the characters, not the races, are human in a Conan game because there are no non-human races. So there is no opportunity to become a non-human in the game.

But once blended (and it covers this as well), you get races that are non-human. The Conan races still count a humans, but with a half-breed card (for example) you could combine your human race from Conan with a non-human race from another set. You would still count as human, in regards to monsters and items, in the same way you would still count as a dwarf if you were half-dwarf half-elf.