[DF][First Time] Advice in pregenerating the cleric and wizard

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by apoc527

That's a good suggestion, thanks. I went through e23 and harvested all the free stuff back before I started buying books, and I'm pleased to get some use out of those Magic Charts. What are some good "high end" spells to focus on, without getting too combat focused?

Your welcome. Hmm
Light And Darkness Sunbolt and Blur.
Knowledge Glass Wall, Invisibility, Wizard Eye, Rember Path, History line,
Pathfinder can be rally handy.
Illusion & Creation Create Animal is the go to spell for me here. Lot of prerequistes but most of those lead to some useful spells.
Food I like to go for Season an Mature, maybe Preserve food. Not a lot of real utility but great campaign flavor. Just to say your eating good tasting food is nice, can even bring a few favors your way.
Earth Entombment is nice but Earth Vision has a lot of uses in delving.
Body Roundabout is fun. Good buffing/Debuffing college.
Animal I go for Rider within, Shapechange if I can afford it.
Air I really like ball Lightning. its just one of the fun missile spells and can be used for distraction and indirect fire. To get it you need Lightning which is a decent missile spell in itself and can handle some basic move the air around stuff.

[apoc527]

Related question: what size Energy Reserve should DF wizards/clerics go for?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Related question: what size Energy Reserve should DF wizards/clerics go for?

Varies. High Skill is better for repeated combat, most say about the same as their HT so they are most efficient with Recover energy and resting.
DF introduces Power Objects and your doing this on the Cheap anyhow.
I would give them ER 3 [9] and let them buy it up later.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Related question: what size Energy Reserve should DF wizards/clerics go for?

Big?

Also notice the Item of Power thing, or whatever it is called, in DF1. They don't recharge, except when you pay $$$$ in the town, though, so innate FP and ER should be relied upon the most.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by apoc527

2. For the wizard, what 20 or so spells would you choose if you were playing GURPS DF for the first time and had never played with a GURPS wizard before? The player who will likely take this PC does NOT need to be a blaster--he quite likes being subtle, sneaky, and intelligent about problems, so I'm not worried about him running into the "GURPS mages are not blasters" issue that I see discussed quite often. I want to make sure he has SOME ranged attack Missile Spells, but I also want to be sure that he gets the full flavor of GURPS Magic's versatility and adaptability.

Something I'd like to try would be a Wizard specialized in the Movement college. Its basic spells are Apportation and Haste, both of which lead to an impressive array of useful utility and combat spells. Haste leads to Grease, Glue and Hinder for debuffing and battlefield control, and Great Haste is an incredibly potent buff on any fighter. Apportation opens up Locksmith (great for buffing the Thief to get through tricky locks), Levitation & Flight for mobility, Poltergeist & Winged Knife for direct fire capability, and Deflect Missile & Missile Shield for defense. The only downside is that Teleport and its ilk are generally banned for DF PCs, making the highest tier of Movement spells unusable.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Something I'd like to try would be a Wizard specialized in the Movement college. Its basic spells are Apportation and Haste, both of which lead to an impressive array of useful utility and combat spells. Haste leads to Grease, Glue and Hinder for debuffing and battlefield control, and Great Haste is an incredibly potent buff on any fighter. Apportation opens up Locksmith (great for buffing the Thief to get through tricky locks), Levitation & Flight for mobility, Poltergeist & Winged Knife for direct fire capability, and Deflect Missile & Missile Shield for defense. The only downside is that Teleport and its ilk are generally banned for DF PCs, making the highest tier of Movement spells unusable.

"Can I have Teleport? Please?? Pleeeeeeeease?"

"Sure, but you gain this minor disadvantage: Enemy (Watchers at the Edge of Time, Hunter, 12 or less), -60 points. Too bad for you that the disad limit is -50 points. You get this trait anyway. But at least you can Teleport!"

Mwahahahahahahaha. I'm sure some groups would take that.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by apoc527

"Can I have Teleport? Please?? Pleeeeeeeease?"

"Sure, but you gain this minor disadvantage: Enemy (Watchers at the Edge of Time, Hunter, 12 or less), -60 points. Too bad for you that the disad limit is -50 points. You get this trait anyway. But at least you can Teleport!"

Ooh, Temporary Disadvantage: Enemy... I'm going to have to use that at some point.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by apoc527

1. For the cleric, should I use the standard magic system or try one of the Divine Favor flavors of cleric? If I use the Divine Favor version, does that make the DF: Clerics book useless?

As the writer of the Dungeon Saints article, I must say that Divine Favor requires a hefty investment in DF, meaning that at 150 points, regular clerics will have a significant edge, given that each spell only costs 1 point. I built and tested them for 250 points, you will need to come up with your variations to cut them down to 150 points. Warrior Saints will be little more than sub-par Knights until they get some more points, as they are already dividing their focus between acting as a divine channeler and as a warrior. Mind you, Holy Warriors aren't in a much better position. Build some, and see for yourself. I can help you optimize them though :-)

As for the usefulness of DF7:Clerics, it will be of limited use, but you can use the variant Holy Might powers as inspiration for miracles. I didn't have the space to include variant clerics in the article, as they would have required me to come up with a lot of new miracles. Mind you, you would still use the skill and advantage changes from the variant clerics when building variant saints, but the spell lists are one of the defining features of the book, and one you won't use.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

As the writer of the Dungeon Saints article, I must say that Divine Favor requires a hefty investment in DF, meaning that at 150 points, regular clerics will have a significant edge, given that each spell only costs 1 point. I built and tested them for 250 points, you will need to come up with your variations to cut them down to 150 points. Warrior Saints will be little more than sub-par Knights until they get some more points, as they are already dividing their focus between acting as a divine channeler and as a warrior. Mind you, Holy Warriors aren't in a much better position. Build some, and see for yourself. I can help you optimize them though :-)

As for the usefulness of DF7:Clerics, it will be of limited use, but you can use the variant Holy Might powers as inspiration for miracles. I didn't have the space to include variant clerics in the article, as they would have required me to come up with a lot of new miracles. Mind you, you would still use the skill and advantage changes from the variant clerics when building variant saints, but the spell lists are one of the defining features of the book, and one you won't use.

Thanks for the warning on the 150 point limitations. The ninja seems a bit weak too. That's okay though, I will probably "level" these PCs very quickly.

Would it be okay to use both kinds of clerics in my game? In other words, you can be cleric but you could also make a Saint or Warrior Saint? They'd just be another variation of divine magic, right?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Thanks for the warning on the 150 point limitations. The ninja seems a bit weak too. That's okay though, I will probably "level" these PCs very quickly.

Would it be okay to use both kinds of clerics in my game? In other words, you can be cleric but you could also make a Saint or Warrior Saint? They'd just be another variation of divine magic, right?

Both kids of clerics can coexist without issues, I've done that, and it works. Of course having both in a party will mean that they cover the same niche. Douglass Cole is playing a Warrior Saint in a party that includes a cleric, I will let him tell you what issues, if any, he had.