Generation Ships

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Thus this thread. Given a highly limited population of scientists to draw upon which areas would they focus on?

They would focus on things they _physically_ could work on.

So high energy physics is probably not a good option due to a shortage of accelerators of ground-breaking power.

I doubt their ability to re-build their propulsuion system mid-flight and even moreso to re-design their mission profile. So I don't think propulsion is likely.

Life sciences and genetics doesn't need as much hardware as big physics and looks good.

Math needs scratch paper, coffee and geniuses to consume the two previous items. Raise a generation of kids with IQ+2 and Mathematial Ability 4 and you ought to see _something_. The Great Bird of the Galaxy only knows if it will be useful to you or anyone else for a century or two.

Cybernetics and robotics looks likely and would be useful for maintenance. Working in the sewers never seemed to do Ed Norton's mential health much good (old people will get this joke). Inventing robots is probably more useful.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Cybernetics and robotics looks likely and would be useful for maintenance. Working in the sewers never seemed to do Ed Norton's mential health much good (old people will get this joke). Inventing robots is probably more useful.

This. The primary obstacle to my advancement of robot science is time away from the lab enforced by people with other priorities. The support of a community whose continued existence hinges on robust automated systems and permanent isolation from nonsupporters are very attractive.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

They would focus on things they _physically_ could work on.

So high energy physics is probably not a good option due to a shortage of accelerators of ground-breaking power.

I doubt their ability to re-build their propulsuion system mid-flight and even moreso to re-design their mission profile. So I don't think propulsion is likely.

Life sciences and genetics doesn't need as much hardware as big physics and looks good.

Math needs scratch paper, coffee and geniuses to consume the two previous items. Raise a generation of kids with IQ+2 and Mathematial Ability 4 and you ought to see _something_. The Great Bird of the Galaxy only knows if it will be useful to you or anyone else for a century or two.

Cybernetics and robotics looks likely and would be useful for maintenance. Working in the sewers never seemed to do Ed Norton's mential health much good (old people will get this joke). Inventing robots is probably more useful.

Hmm I wonder what sort of math they might work on. I suspect it's impossible to say but I'm not sure how to convey the colour of modern ultra-tech math.

If the robots are responsible for maintaining the ship then it seems to me that people would be maintaining the robots. Helping maintain the machinery that is the difference between life and death is different from helping maintain the infrastructure of a city you could leave. The important thing isn't that everyone is highly relevant to the maintenance of the ship but that they perceive that they are somehow responsible for preserving their own lives.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

This. The primary obstacle to my advancement of robot science is time away from the lab enforced by people with other priorities. The support of a community whose continued existence hinges on robust automated systems and permanent isolation from nonsupporters are very attractive.

The robot guys will have a bigger slice of the pie but the pie is a lot smaller so I suspect their advancement of robot stuff will still be somewhat limited by a lot of people trying to steal the lab from them.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Lamech

Spaceships disagrees with you. You can make a generation ship starting at... TL 7. That said spaceships is horribly optimistic about everything. However nothing really prevents a generation ship at TL 7 according to spaceships.

Does SPACESHIPS address anything longer than "long space voyages"?

Originally Posted by Earther

I don't see any generation ship ever working as planned. Just look at any cruise ship line where people are onboard for just 5 days. Still, it is fun though for a campaign setting.

One step on the way to generation ships would be something like a Cloud 9 tensegrity sphere. If you can make one of those to stay aloft and productively inhabited for 50 years it would go a long way toward showing generation ships are doable.

[Flyndaran]

It would help to have some kind of suspended animation for when things get sticky and the biosphere needs time to mend.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It would help to have some kind of suspended animation for when things get sticky and the biosphere needs time to mend.

Depending on how the suspended animation works some ships might forego the whole generation ship thing and just have everyone sleep until they get there.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Depending on how the suspended animation works some ships might forego the whole generation ship thing and just have everyone sleep until they get there.

Dangerous, and I would hazard to guess that any realistic type has a shelf life.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It would help to have some kind of suspended animation for when things get sticky and the biosphere needs time to mend.

Of course this does tend to raise questions about the nessescity of a generation ship in the first place. Even if you can't keep everybody under all the time if you can keep say between fifty and seventy five percent of your passengers under at a time why aren't you?

Fewer active passengers, all other things being equal, is going to mean less mass devoted to habitat spaces resulting in better acceleration to crusing speed (and possibly a higher crusing speed).

One take on this I have seen was the idea of colony ships with a small generation ship crew tending hibernating passengers. Naturaly it didn't end so well.

[Flyndaran]

I meant having the suspension as an emergency reserve, not an assumed way to increase efficiency.
It would be like having lifeboats on a ship, but always have a portion of your crew living in them. It defeats the purpose or a reserve.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Dangerous, and I would hazard to guess that any realistic type has a shelf life.

If you don't trust automatic warning systems it takes far less people to see if anything horrible is happening then the full complement of the crew.

Atomic Rockets states
"Poul Anderson noted that there is probably a limit to how long a human will remain viable in cryogenic suspension (in other words they have a shelf-life). Naturally occuring radioactive atoms in the body will cause damage. In a non-suspended person such damage is repaired, but in a suspended person it just accumulates. He's talking about this damage happening over suspensions lasting several hundred years, during interstellar trips. This may require one to periodically thaw out crew members and keep them awake for long enough to heal the damage before re-freezing them."

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I meant having the suspension as an emergency reserve, not an assumed way to increase efficiency.
It would be like having lifeboats on a ship, but always have a portion of your crew living in them. It defeats the purpose or a reserve.

Suspension as an emergency action seems to make the most sense with human hibernation.