Generation Ships

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Sindri

A generation ship's mission is getting to it's destination with people on board.

Ironfist governments seem as likely to follow other aims of the original colonists as any other. Especially if it is a gerontocracy.

Would a gerontocracy risk the loss of control that leaving the ship would risk? A dictatorship that legitamates itself by saying "We do what we do so that our community will survive this crisis of the long voyage!" has no interest in saying the voyage is over. The old sci fi trope of the degenerate generation starship which arived at the colony world centuries ago fits in here.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Would a gerontocracy risk the loss of control that leaving the ship would risk? A dictatorship that legitamates itself by saying "We do what we do so that our community will survive this crisis of the long voyage!" has no interest in saying the voyage is over.

They have no choice. There's no way to design a big machine to last forever, still less an artificial ecosystem. And the margins involved in building a generation ship are so tight there's no way it could be designed to last all that much longer than the projected time of arrival.

[oldgringo2001]

Way back in the 1980s, before most of you were born, a Traveller supplement had a pretty good premise for a generation ship that worked. it was an asteroid-hulled ship, crewed by belters who were used to the life in restricted environments, and who didn't mind "going somewhere interesting." The European Space Agency put colonists aboard in cold sleep, but specified that a small percentage were to be periodically revived so that the crew and colonists did not drift apart culturally. Eventually they settled the Island Clusters in Reft Sector.

For an example of a colony ship where cultural drift led to a drastic rift between Crew and Colonists, read Larry Niven's A Gift From Earth.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Would a gerontocracy risk the loss of control that leaving the ship would risk? A dictatorship that legitamates itself by saying "We do what we do so that our community will survive this crisis of the long voyage!" has no interest in saying the voyage is over. The old sci fi trope of the degenerate generation starship which arived at the colony world centuries ago fits in here.

It might want to say that but then again lots of governments might want to say that. It may not be possible for them to keep the knowledge secret.

They could also go for very slow expansion out of the generation ship when they got there. It makes a lot of sense really and some people might have no interest in leaving the ship.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

They have no choice. There's no way to design a big machine to last forever, still less an artificial ecosystem. And the margins involved in building a generation ship are so tight there's no way it could be designed to last all that much longer than the projected time of arrival.

Sure it could last longer. An artificial ecosystem is a lot longer lasting than many big machines. If your ship is going to be travelling x long and you can build a ship that can survive for 2x you could send the longer lasting ship to the shorter distance. You could design a ship that is falling apart by the time it gets to it's destination but it seems a lot safer to give it a margin for safety reasons and on a long voyage that margin might be big enough for a decision maker to feel letting the ship sail a bit further won't affect him.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by oldgringo2001

For an example of a colony ship where cultural drift led to a drastic rift between Crew and Colonists, read Larry Niven's A Gift From Earth.

Another one, more recent, is Alistair Reynolds' Chasm City.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Would a gerontocracy risk the loss of control that leaving the ship would risk? A dictatorship that legitamates itself by saying "We do what we do so that our community will survive this crisis of the long voyage!" has no interest in saying the voyage is over. The old sci fi trope of the degenerate generation starship which arived at the colony world centuries ago fits in here.

One of the many big advantages of doing it at TL9 instead of attempting at TL7. AI's can run stuff.
Mayor: Okay other powerful elites, we're going to just tell everyone the planet isn't safe and we need to stay aboard. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Computer patch me through the P.A. system!
Computer: Sorry, I have the honesty disadvantage. No can do.
Mayor: But I want to be mayor for life...
Computer: I can give you a fancy title if you want. Oh and first colony pods launched.
Mayor: :(

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Sure it could last longer. An artificial ecosystem is a lot longer lasting than many big machines.

Where is this supported?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Where is this supported?

Since it's possible for a big machine to fail immediately it's a safe, but not meaningful assertion.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Where is this supported?

I don't know what you mean by "where" but it is based on the fact that an artificial ecosystem probably incorporates an intrinsic repair ability whereas many big machines don't.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Sindri

I don't know what you mean by "where" but it is based on the fact that an artificial ecosystem probably incorporates an intrinsic repair ability whereas many big machines don't.

Unfortunately the stability of a ecosystem is proportionate to its size. Farming is a chancey business and when one bad growing season can put the whole balance of oxygen and CO2 out of whack, you may not have a chance to recover.