breaking promises and being a jerk

[Duck-Of-Doom]

Hi.

This won't be covered (I am assuming) by official rules, but I was curious to as what most people think about breaking promises in munchkin and/or being a jerk in general.

For example, someone might not have something to bargain with in regards helping/not helping out in battles. Once in a while, we have exchanges like, "If you let me beat this monster, I promise I won't be a jerk (ie. curse, attack) to you".

And then the very next turn, you might attack that person when they are trying to beat a mosnter, or curse them with something really mean, in essence, breaking your promise to be nice to them.

Is this frowned upon, or is it fair game?

Viewpoint 1) It's a promise, don't be a jerk.
Viewpoint 2) It's munchkinly and there was nothing official so anything goes.

Thoughts?

[Cpt. Sqweky]

While I and my usual gaming group admittedly play a bit looser with the rules than most, something like that is still very frowned upon. This is Munchkin, not Illuminati.

[snarky]

In our group, the only binding agreements are those that are used in exchange for help. If you ask someone to help, and their ask is that you not interfere in their next combat, and you accept - you're bound to that agreement. Breaching it is definitely not cool.

Any other agreement is fair game, though - if you agree not to interfere in someone's combat for a future benefit to you, you're out of luck and should know better.

Admittedly, we can be a bit ruthless at time, but we all know how we play.

[Clipper]

If somebody in one of my games did that, I would never trust them again in any game, and given I'm the host, they may not be invited back, depending on the severity of infringement. Following Wheaton's Law is the best way to have fun, in my opinion.

[TheBiff]

In my group we do honor what we say. Of course we all love to stab each other in the back, but it is just a game and we know it. If someone did break the agreement then I simply wouldn't trust them in the future. I think that is fair enough. Some people break promises in games and that is how they win or they feel they need to do that to win. I completely understand, that is their tactic. However I just wont be the fuel for that fire anymore. I see it as a no big deal in it, unless they are like that in person.

It is not uncommon for one of us to say, help me for no treasure and in the future I will help you when you need it for no treasure.

[backstabby]

This kind of behavior is very munchkinly, and although helping is an unbreakable contract, anything else had better be backed up with a ton of power and threats, or else you will quickly learn to never trust that guy again. (Note: We mostly use these contracts as an excuse to kill someone else we feel more threatened by at the moment. "I would play this on Tom, but I promised to not be a jerk to him, so sorry Dave, you now have an evil weapon and you just lost two levels, so sorry, I had no choice.")

However, if you say (for example) "I'll give you my staff of Napalm if you play your lethal card on that potted plant," That deal you must complete. But "I won't be a jerk to you" is very loosely defined and could mean anything from "I will help you every combat with out demanding a bribe" to "I won't play lethal AND level draining on you, I'll just play lethal and mate it."

And people who constantly break undefined contracts constantly usually end up losing their next game with a combat strength of 3 and at level 2.

[FourDeuces]

The only games I have played have included my 9 year old son. Since we are teaching him to be true to his word, this just never happens. Never.

However, I do feel that with adults, some of the gameplay should include a level of backstabby, munchkinly, bluffing behavior. Over time, the behavior tames itself, based on level of success. It is not unlike a poker player who bluffs all the time. He (if he is any good) will stop bluffing as much when people start to catch on. All players, know, understand, and have an opportunity (duty?) to bluff as well, so it is part of the game. This would work well in Munchkin, so long as everyone has the same understanding.

The problems will only arise when one player thinks they are playing one type of game, and other players aren't on board. This contradiction causes hate and discontent, and is not desired in any game, Munchkin or otherwise.

Bottom line, it should be made clear to all players what level of untruths will be tolerated. I like snarky's rule that it is not acceptable in response to battle help, but any other time is fair game. But whatever you decide, just be clear.

[sir_pudding]

Not Munchkin, but I once played in a game of Settlers of Cataan in the FLGS. I made a trade with another player, and didn't get the resources he had promised. Thinking him in error, I pointed this out and he said, "Nowhere do the rules state that you can't lie."
I responded, "Okay, nowhere do any rules state that I have to trust you ever again" and gave him a chance to take it back. He declined. We finished the game (and I never traded with him again).
Months later I was running a game at the FLGS, and he wanted to play. I told him that I wasn't going to play games with him ever again, and he certainly isn't allowed to play in my game. He seemed hurt, but tough.

[morleydotes]

It's easy. I smile at them and say, "Hi target". AND everyone else at the table helps me kill them. More often than not, we do not allow them back to the table after that.

Andrew's rule #?: Keep your word.


Pat

[Pleh]

As you can readily see from the responses, it varies a lot depending on your group and the nature of the crime (which is likely why it will never be an official ruling anywhere). On the one hand, going back on an agreed upon deal is a low blow, but on the other, trusting a known opponent to act outside his own best interests without any other compulsion than their own word is just asking for trouble.

In general, my groups generally don't make deals that aren't legally enforced by the rules (allegiances against certain people at the table are fairly common, however). I don't think anyone in my group ever puts a lot of faith into these kinds of deals because they know as often as not the other player won't live up to the deal. And everyone knows that when level 9 is on the line, all previously made deals are off the table.