Silent Ammunition Questions

[ronom]

I believe there were experiments with piston ammo, but these went nowhere and silencer technology improved.

[HANS]

Originally Posted by ronom

I believe there were experiments with piston ammo, but these went nowhere and silencer technology improved.

In the West -- yes. The AAI Teleshot designs developed for shotguns and grenade launchers went nowhere. In the East -- no. There are several Russian designs using the captured piston approach (=Silent Ammunition). The problem with all of these is they are extremely low-powered and really only work well in manually-operated weapons. The PSS pistol is the only semiautomatic gun, and it's basically an arm's-length assassination weapon.

Cheers

HANS

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Kallatari

Yep. So, what would this take? How much would it cost (ballpark)?

To be a bit more optimistic than HANS I'd let it be designed with the rules in Basic Set.

Originally Posted by Kallatari

And could it still use normal ammo interchangeable?

Definitely not. The silent round would have to be much longer than the original.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Kallatari;1360835 on making a silent version of an M16 or MP7

Yep. So, what would this take? How much would it cost (ballpark)? And could it still use normal ammo interchangeable?

Gadgeteer 2, high science! skill, and the ability to make TL^ inventions (Since it would involve seemingly impossible physics). Crossbows are much easier and virtually silent (silent enough they are actually used by special ops groups on occasion).

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Crossbows are much easier and virtually silent (silent enough they are actually used by special ops groups on occasion).

Don't think anyone thought of that as an option. I'll mention it to them as an alternative "silent weapon".

Thanks!

[Kax]

Originally Posted by Kallatari

Yep. So, what would this take? How much would it cost (ballpark)? And could it still use normal ammo interchangeable?


That's what I'm guessing. My players have that already, but are trying to see if they can get something better. I have my doubts, but I'm not the expert, thus the post on the forums...

There are such weapons, one based on a M16 and another based on a 7.62 base (can't remember the base firearm).

They do it by getting the case and necking it out to a larger round, then using the right bullet mass/powder mix get a round that is barely subsonic (the M16 uses a 7.62 bullet, the larger one uses a 0.50 BMG bullet). The barrel is a silencer along its whole length.

This gives you a semi-auto counter-sniper weapon where the most noise it makes on firing it is the click of the striker hitting the pin. The Whisper 7.62 has a useful range (ie., assured-kill range--this would be 1/2 damage range) of about 3/4 mile, the Whisper 0.50 has a useful range of about a mile.

The weapons cannot fire any other round--you would destroy the silencer component if you did, and they'd have to be specially made anyway. And who'd want to? :)

I can supply a Janes writeup if needed.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Kax

There are such weapons, one based on a M16 and another based on a 7.62 base (can't remember the base firearm).

They do it by getting the case and necking it out to a larger round, then using the right bullet mass/powder mix get a round that is barely subsonic (the M16 uses a 7.62 bullet, the larger one uses a 0.50 BMG bullet). The barrel is a silencer along its whole length.

This gives you a semi-auto counter-sniper weapon where the most noise it makes on firing it is the click of the striker hitting the pin. The Whisper 7.62 has a useful range (ie., assured-kill range--this would be 1/2 damage range) of about 3/4 mile, the Whisper 0.50 has a useful range of about a mile.

The weapons cannot fire any other round--you would destroy the silencer component if you did, and they'd have to be specially made anyway. And who'd want to? :)

I can supply a Janes writeup if needed.

If you mean the .300 Whisper that is simply a subsonic round. It isn't really a "counter-sniper" weapon in the slightest. The noise reduction is a classic exaggeration for quiet weapons, people who make new bullets tend to hype their designs absurdly.

[Kax]

Originally Posted by lexington

If you mean the .300 Whisper that is simply a subsonic round. It isn't really a "counter-sniper" weapon in the slightest. The noise reduction is a classic exaggeration for quiet weapons, people who make new bullets tend to hype their designs absurdly.

The description is from a gun mag review firing of the smaller one. I never believe the brochures. And, IIRC, the Janes article lists the dB values.

It is the minmaxing of a large heavy subsonic round and a silenced barrel, like any good munchkin weapon designer. :)

[HANS]

Originally Posted by Kax

There are such weapons, one based on a M16 and another based on a 7.62 base (can't remember the base firearm).

No. These don't fire silent ammunition. They fire subsonic ammunition. Big difference.

Originally Posted by Kax

This gives you a semi-auto counter-sniper weapon where the most noise it makes on firing it is the click of the striker hitting the pin.

And this is usually still surprisingly loud. You can try that out yourself by dry-firing any gun at home. Also, the impact can also be remarkably loud.

Originally Posted by Kax

The Whisper 7.62 has a useful range (ie., assured-kill range--this would be 1/2 damage range) of about 3/4 mile, the Whisper 0.50 has a useful range of about a mile.

Anything that claims to have an "assured-kill range" should be taken with an entire shaker of salt. And no, Jane's Infantry Weapons isn't reliable in this regard . . .

Cheers

HANS

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by HANS

Anything that claims to have an "assured-kill range" should be taken with an entire shaker of salt.

Of course, the error might be translating 'useful range' as 'assured-kill range', since that might mean just about anything (it's probably the range at which it can reasonably hit a human-sized target).