[DF] Why is the Prime Material Plane Important?

[Wraithe]

Originally Posted by b-dog

What is wrong with referencing Gary Gygax? It is like saying you can not reference Newton or Einstein when talking about Physics.

I'm just gonna accept that in the spirit it's meant, and let it slide by, since I would hate to sound like I dislike Gary Gygax, which I don't, but the comparison is just - off. I would accept "like saying you cannot reference Tony Hawk when talking about vertical skateboarding", however. :)

The point people are making by saying this is that you're asking a settings specific (i.e.; a "Roleplaying In General") question in the GURPS forum.

The answer you your original question is, therefore; Per RAW: The Prime Material Plane does not exist by default in DF. If you're using it your campaign, it's up to you to determine that. If it doesn't cause any effects - it's pure flavor/plot, and so, no rules effects.

[William]

I can't believe there's this much verbiage dedicated to whether the question was proper. It was clear what the poster was asking, and picked no one's pocket if there was a term of art shanghaied for the purpose, don't you think?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by William

I can't believe there's this much verbiage dedicated to whether the question was proper. It was clear what the poster was asking, and picked no one's pocket if there was a term of art shanghaied for the purpose, don't you think?

Since this is the internet I must ask you, "What do you really mean by that? Is that some kind of insult?"
;)

[Wraithe]

Originally Posted by William

...It was clear what the poster was asking, and picked no one's pocket if there was a term of art shanghaied for the purpose, don't you think?

Well, the thing is, since he's asking in the GURPS forum, he's limiting his audience, and going to get a smaller group of people than if he asked in the Roleplaying In General forum.

It'd be kind of like me asking "Hey, I'm running a GURPS game set in the Bronze Age - what do you guys think motivated the Milesians to invade Eire?" (As god is my witness, no one actually answer this. :))

It's certainly no skin off anyones nose to said question(s) here - just maybe not as fruitful, since there're no GURPS crunchies involved. :)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Wraithe

Well, the thing is, since he's asking in the GURPS forum, he's limiting his audience, and going to get a smaller group of people than if he asked in the Roleplaying In General forum.

I've got a sneaking suspicion more people read this forum.

[Purple Haze]

Originally Posted by Edges

Actually, he's right. As far back as first ed. D&D, there were conceivably infinite PMPs. An inhabitant of a PMP called their home the PMP and all others alternate PMPs. Each of these had their own Ethereal plane. Thus, travel from one PMP to another was tricky. The PMPs could be widely different in terms of physics, mana-levels, TL, inhabitants, etc. Basically, the infinite worlds game concept for table-top was developed for D&D in the 80s.

To be "exact": the ethereal planes are interplanetary space connecting a PMP to its ethereal planes and the other planets in its solar system, the astral plane is interstellar space connecting all the APMP's to eah other and to the sixteen base levels of the aligned outer planes where the deities live. ("True Neutral" deities apparently live on PMP's)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I was only curious as to what other players think of why the Prime Material Plane is important

I think the obvious answer is the one The Tick gave Omnipitus for why he shouldn't eat the Earth "That's where I keep my stuff!" If the PMP is the plane that the game takes place on, in other words the campaign setting, then of course the character's are invested in it. Most typically they were born there, they live there, they have vested interests there, their loved ones are there, and all their wealth is there. Really why should they care about events on other material planes that don't affect theirs?

and how they set up their cosmology.

The only possible answer is the one thay never seems to apease you: it is entirely setting dependent. I've already described the Newton\Dee derived cosmology of Desolation Road, which doesn't need a "prime" material plane since it lacks any alternate material realms. My next game The Pheonix Imperitive is going with a Crowley-esque perceptual reality, as I need to support multiple traditions. I may use the Seprioth as an underlying model but I haven't decided. It too will not feature world-hopping, planar travel will only involve higher or lower mystical states, so "prime" is again meaninglesss.

Really, I don't see the point unless the campaign is going to feature player directed travel between different worldlines. in which having a homebase makes sense.

Originally Posted by William

It was clear what the poster was asking,

Is it? I remain perplexed by these threads. He seems to be demanding that GURPS give hard answers to setting metaphysical questions that would somehow apply to all campaigns. He certianly doesn't accept, "it is setting dependent, do what thou wilt and have fun" as an answer. Perhaps I am misunderstanding him. Can you clarify it?

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I've got a sneaking suspicion more people read this forum.

RPG.net has even more, and seems to be a better place for AD&D cosmology.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

To be "exact": the ethereal planes are interplanetary space connecting a PMP to its ethereal planes and the other planets in its solar system, the astral plane is interstellar space connecting all the APMP's to eah other and to the sixteen base levels of the aligned outer planes where the deities live. ("True Neutral" deities apparently live on PMP's)

If you are speaking metaphorically, then yes. But D&D cosmology was never restricted to the type of celestial order we have in the real world. In the rare cases when things like planets and solar systems were used (e.g. Spelljammer), it wasn't either the ethereal or astral planes that separated them.