[DF] Why is the Prime Material Plane Important?

[thulben]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

DF elementals are subject to the Banish spell, so that's at least suggestive of elemental planes, though the only definite implication is that elementals originate from some other plane, not necessarily specific elemental realms.

Fair enough. I guess my point is that this thread so far has nothing to do with GURPS so far as the discussion could take with respect to *any* fantasy-esque RPG, thus making it a General discussion.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by thulben

Fair enough. I guess my point is that this thread so far has nothing to do with GURPS so far as the discussion could take with respect to *any* fantasy-esque RPG, thus making it a General discussion.

Except the originality poster did't say that he said he was interested it in the terms of Dungeon Fantasy, a GURPS line (that what the [DF] in the title means)

[DocRailgun]

It's where all the prayers come from. Prayers and faith are how gods become divine and grow in divine strength in a good old-fashioned D&D-type universe.

Originally Posted by b-dog

I am interested in ideas for why the Prime Material Plane would be important in in a DF cosmology. There are so many planes like the Elemental, Divine Realms, the Hells, Astral, Ethereal, Outer Void and so on that it sort of makes you wonder why anything existing in this cosmology would even care what goes on in the Prime Material Plane because there is so much other stuff going on.

For me it seems that the Prime Material Plane is a place where wars are waged between the various other planes. And also the act of being mortal gives a chance for growth and development. Humans souls have no choice as they are placed into bodies at birth and during life they must decide where their souls will end up. Faeries like dwarves, elves, gnome and others decide to become mortal when they become bored of the Faerie Realm and experience life. But all in all, the Prime Material Plane provides more Free Will than other places of existence although it also results in death as well.

If you have any ideas then please feel free to post.

[thulben]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Except the originality poster did't say that he said he was interested it in the terms of Dungeon Fantasy, a GURPS line (that what the [DF] in the title means)

"Dungeon Fantasy" refers to a genre, which GURPS happens to have a line of books for. It'd be tantamount to asking "what do you guys think about FTL communication?" for a sci-fi setting. While it's roleplaying-related question, it's not specific to the system that is used to implement the setting.

That said, I'll stop being a curmudgeon and just ignore this thread. :)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Except the originality poster did't say that he said he was interested it in the terms of Dungeon Fantasy, a GURPS line (that what the [DF] in the title means)

DF doesn't use Gygaxian cosmology explicitly anywhere, no matter how much b-dog wants it to.

If he wants to use Gygax's ideas for D&D in his GURPS game, the game police aren't going to arrest him, but he isn't going to get an official blessing from Kromm either. As usual, I'm really perplexed as to what he wants.

In my current (non-DF) game, there are at least four planes:
Our universe.

• An ethereal plane that overlays the material universe; this is where immaterial spirits exist.
• A celestial realm that houses angels and demons that exists outside both the time and space of material universe; all points in this realm are apparently "next to" all points in our universe (including the past and future).
• An "in-between" realm that can access the ethereal plane, but cannot be accessed from our universe directly at all.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

DF doesn't use Gygaxian cosmology explicitly anywhere, no matter how much b-dog wants it to.
...[/LIST]

I think you're giving Gygax more credit than he deserves. Elemental planes are pretty basic ideas.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

DF doesn't use Gygaxian cosmology explicitly anywhere, no matter how much b-dog wants it to.

If he wants to use Gygax's ideas for D&D in his GURPS game, the game police aren't going to arrest him, but he isn't going to get an official blessing from Kromm either. As usual, I'm really perplexed as to what he wants.

In my current (non-DF) game, there are at least four planes:
Our universe.

• An ethereal plane that overlays the material universe; this is where immaterial spirits exist.
• A celestial realm that houses angels and demons that exists outside both the time and space of material universe; all points in this realm are apparently "next to" all points in our universe (including the past and future).
• An "in-between" realm that can access the ethereal plane, but cannot be accessed from our universe directly at all.

I was only curious as to what other players think of why the Prime Material Plane is important and how they set up their cosmology. GURPS DF doesn't go into this too much so I was just looking for ideas. If I wanted to use the official DF cosmology then I would just open my Dungeon Master's Guide and use that and would not ask people on the forums what their ideas are.

[the_matrix_walker]

Three Reasons why the Prime Material Plane is Important.

Location, Location, Location!

Maybe cosmology say's it's in the "middle"... It has all the stuff! That's pretty big. Everyone's gotta cross through to get around. Or maybe its just close to the easiest "crosswalk" and it's not hard to wander off of into "our" world.

Or maybe they're not really real, they're just essential representations of our world scattered out like the light of our world passing through a prism falling out into the inter-dimensional dark...

The Prime is really important, because it is the one we play in. Probably why we refer to it as "Prime."

I've never really used other planes, I've never seen the attraction. I've had plenty of panachronic fun, but never to the elemental plane of BO-RING (Sorry, I had to, it made me chuckle) I adore world hopping, but most of the old D&D Planes stuff was just, for me, unfun.

[Flyndaran]

I like the elemental planes as merely a subset of platonic like ideals.

[Edges]

I get what thulben and sir pudding are saying. The term "Prime Material Plane" is nothing but a technical D&D term. It's all but meaningless elsewhere AFAIK. It is not unlike asking about Magery on the D&D forum or muggles on the LotR forum. And while Gurps is certainly able to handle gygaxian cosmology, it is by no means the default cosmology for GURPS DF as the OP's first paragraph seems to suggest. /curmudgeoning.

I've never had a Prime Material Plane in GURPS DF. I've had one material plane and one spirit plane. And I've had one material plane and two spirit planes. In non-DF GURPS games I've sometimes had multiple material planes but none of them were considered prime.

Before I got into GURPS, I ran probably over a hundred games. Many of them had multiple material planes. And in some, one of the material planes was considered more central or in some cases, more real. So in these instances, there was a Prime Material Plane if you will. And I've played D&D.

As an attempt to answer the OPs question, I'll say that in the games where there was a PMP, it was "so important" because it was somehow more central or more real. In my view, the PMP is important by definition. It is Prime after all. Whatever makes it stand out as prime in your cosmology is what makes it important.

Some ideas on what might make a material plane "prime":

• It is what God or the gods pay most attention to.
• It is the place where new souls are first introduced.
• It is the largest or only hub/crossroads between planes.
• It is more lasting. Matter from it will remain material in other planes while matter from other planes will dissolve on the PMP and otherworldy creatures can't stay forever on the PMP.
• Material from the PMP is more potent. Its food is the tastiest, it's steel is the easiest to enchant, etc.
• Material, or even magic itself, is most potent when taken to the PMP (sort of the opposite of the preceding point). If everyone's magic items are more effective on the PMP, they will want to bring them there to use. It becomes the play field.
• While time flows at different rates in different planes, they use the PMP as their universal clock.
• Souls transmigrate is a special way on the PMP. Maybe you can choose what to become if you die there but if you die elsewhere you become something specific. If you die in hell, you become a demon but if you die in the PMP, you could become an angel.
• Thoughts/beliefs on the PMP have a formative impact on the other planes but not (or to a lesser degree) vice versa.

I think I'll stop there.