[DF] Why is the Prime Material Plane Important?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Dustin

The Prime is the only source of new souls, it's constantly begetting them as part of the cycle of creation and life here. Other planes have to recycle theirs, they can only gain additional souls by convincing Prime dwellers to pledge their souls after death to leave the Prime and migrate away.

Or just mating grounds for them.

[William]

A Planescape setting has to grapple with this question a lot. Here are a few of the answers:

*) There are a lot of mortals. It started with elves, but humans are prolific and orckind is even more fecund. Now they're coming on to the planes. A god who wants worshipers will be looking to the Prime; those who affect human history have a say in history, period.

*) The living are different. Elementals are too simple to affect the course of history, divine servants are focused by their god, and dead souls have lost an important mystical quality. There is something gods want from the living -- belief energy, or new ideas, etc. -- and it's the reason most religions either have an injunction against killing or regard killing as itself a holy act.

*) The Prime Material is the crossroads of the planes. Covered upthread.

*) The Prime Material is the most "real" of all the planes. (This may be a humanocentric view; an elemental may consider the elemental planes more real.)

*) Location, location, location. That is to say, only the Prime consists of physical locations. Elemental planes are a topology of elemental states and afterlife planes are a topology of spirits states. It may be that everything on those planes is a projection of something on the Prime that can be manipulated.

[cbower]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I am interested in ideas for why the Prime Material Plane would be important in in a DF cosmology.

In my gameworld, the Material Plane is the only place where stuff is real, solid, matter. Things from other realms are ectoplasm and spirit matter, so, for example, a gold coin from the Material Plane remains a gold coin if you take it to the City of Brass, Heaven, or Hell. A gold coin from the City of Brass might turn in to an acorn in the Happy Hunting Grounds, or a silver armband in Asgard.

In addition, like in GURPS Cabal, beliefs in the Material Plane affect the other planes and the way they appear.

[thulben]

Is there a reference to the Prime Material Plane somewhere in a GURPS book that I missed? Are there any GURPS rules for discussion here? If no to both, what makes this a GURPS thread (as opposed to something that belongs in General Roleplaying?)

[kdtipa]

Originally Posted by thulben

Is there a reference to the Prime Material Plane somewhere in a GURPS book that I missed? Are there any GURPS rules for discussion here? If no to both, what makes this a GURPS thread (as opposed to something that belongs in General Roleplaying?)

Could be that the OP is looking for GURPS game mechanics he could use to explain why the PMP is important, for his GURPS campaign.

[kdtipa]

I like the "crossroads" idea that's been mentioned, but I think I would take it a step further. I might say that the Prime Material Plane is the foundation. Every other plane is just a branch off the PMP. Things that happen here can affect things in the other planes. Perhaps a spell caster is using some ritual to siphon fire from the Elemental Plane of Fire to use for a very destructive spell... and the siphoning is causing damage to the EPoF. So fire elementals would care about what's happening in the PMP. Just an example.

Maybe those branch realities are pale shadows of the PMP, and anything that lives in those branch planes will become more "real" if they can get to the PMP. So creatures like fire elementals have fairly average or below-average stats while in their native plane, but if they can get to the PMP... where the real power of creation and reality lie... their stats become better. Demons crave reaching the PMP to gain power (as another example). Gods are the only thing that aren't weaker for being elsewhere, but that's because they exist on all planes at once.

One other "general" reason might be to think of the other planes as having no form. You can exist and be conscious there, but there's nothing to interact with other than other conscious beings. Going to the PMP means having things to interact with.

For GURPS mechanics, I might create a campaign setting trait that says that anything native to another plane gets its normal stats in the PMP, but a -4 to ST, DX, and HT while in their native plane, and double that on other planes. Conceptually this is meant to suggest that everything is strongest in the PMP. This way I can just make the stats for the creatures and have them perform normally in the PMP without any calculations unless the PCs go to another plane.

Just some thoughts. I hope they help. It's an interesting question.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

Could be that the OP is looking for GURPS game mechanics he could use to explain why the PMP is important, for his GURPS campaign.

That's what I assumed. Gurps has elemental planes, so what else would you call the base humanoid world other than PMP?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That's what I assumed. Gurps has elemental planes,

Really? Is that a DF thing?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Really? Is that a DF thing?

DF elementals are subject to the Banish spell, so that's at least suggestive of elemental planes, though the only definite implication is that elementals originate from some other plane, not necessarily specific elemental realms.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by b-dog

If you have any ideas then please feel free to post.

Perhaps it is as simple as the Prime Material Plane being the source and the wellspring. The Prime Material Plane (PMP) or Planes is the source of the essence that makes the other realms real and vital. Without the energy of the PMP the other realms grow stagnant and lose creativety.

It could be like TORG, the PMP is the source of change and new possiblities. Without new possiblities, a plane becomes spiritually and psychicly frozen and cannot adapt. The entities of that plane lose free will and identity becoming mere automatons and easily controlled. Forgotten demons and gods become the playthings of those who are remembered with fear or love.