[DF] Flaming Skulls and turning undead

[Captain-Captain]

DF leaves the origin of these thinly disguised Skull Spirits open to question. Are they spell effects or "natural" undead.

It occurs to me that Turning could settle the issue. If they can't be turned, they're likely spell effects, if they can be turned, they're legitimate undead.

So do your clerics have a distinct advantage here?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

DF leaves the origin of these thinly disguised Skull Spirits open to question. Are they spell effects or "natural" undead.

The description says "Class: Undead," so regardless of what may have inspired them, they're undead and can be turned.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

The description says "Class: Undead," so regardless of what may have inspired them, they're undead and can be turned.

Yeah. The only reason to assume otherwise would be to mix things up a bit, maybe to challenge the players with something unexpected.

[Kromm]

Undead is undead in GURPS. There's no distinction between undead created by magic – say, by a Lich, Wraith, or Zombie spell – and those that just sprout up out of the ground for supernatural reasons. The only thing that matters is that the entity is classed as "Undead," at which point anything that specifically affects the undead works on it, while anything that says the undead are immune does not.

As for their origins . . . I think of them as the ghosts of those burned to ash by magical fire or demonic hellfire, driven mad with the pain of burning and surrounded in an aura of unnatural flame. They're skull-shaped mostly for aesthetics. The similarity to skull-spirits is coincidental, the result of there being only so many ways to render an immaterial, skull-shaped entity that attacks with a wounding touch.

[bcd]

If you want to maintain some mystery, perhaps there exists an Elemental, Illusion or Creation spell that creates effects very similar to flaming skulls and which for whatever reason is or was very popular in some region. Then whenever the delvers blunder into a pack they can never really know which type it is and what weakness to aim for.

[Flyndaran]

Flaming skull? Sounds like a fire elemental zombie, only turnable by watery clerics.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Undead is undead in GURPS. There's no distinction between undead created by magic – say, by a Lich, Wraith, or Zombie spell – and those that just sprout up out of the ground for supernatural reasons. The only thing that matters is that the entity is classed as "Undead," at which point anything that specifically affects the undead works on it, while anything that says the undead are immune does not.

As for their origins . . . I think of them as the ghosts of those burned to ash by magical fire or demonic hellfire, driven mad with the pain of burning and surrounded in an aura of unnatural flame. They're skull-shaped mostly for aesthetics. The similarity to skull-spirits is coincidental, the result of there being only so many ways to render an immaterial, skull-shaped entity that attacks with a wounding touch.

IIRC, Spells like Control Zombie and Turn Zombie do care if the undead was created with the Zombie spell. Should I submit that for errata?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

IIRC, Spells like Control Zombie and Turn Zombie do care if the undead was created with the Zombie spell. Should I submit that for errata?

Submitting errata, now there's a laugh.

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

IIRC, Spells like Control Zombie and Turn Zombie do care if the undead was created with the Zombie spell. Should I submit that for errata?

That in no way contradicts what Kromm said, though. Those spells don't "specifically affect the undead." They specifically affect undead raised by the Zombie spell.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Stripe

That in no way contradicts what Kromm said, though. Those spells don't "specifically affect the undead." They specifically affect undead raised by the Zombie spell.

Exactly. By "anything that specifically affects the undead," I was referring to things that affect "undead" explicitly, by name, and without qualification, such as the Dungeon Fantasy interpretation of True Faith with Turning ("Take a Concentrate maneuver and roll a Quick Contest of Will with any undead . . ."). The Turn Zombie spell isn't such a thing (". . . anything in the area that was animated using the Zombie spell . . ."). The latter is quite clearly a specific countermeasure against another spell.