Limitations for Magic as Powers

[nerdvana]

I'm working up my take on Magic as Powers (inspired by simulatoralive's spells on his Islands of War site). In reading powers, under accessibility, this advice is given...

Originally Posted by GURPS Powers, p116

Such accessibility limitations as “Requires material components,” “Requires gestures,” and “Requires magic words” are common, and worth -10% apiece.

Which works, but I want more granularity in this. I foresee the following breakdowns with the listed limitation values:

Gestures: Full body (-15%), two-hands (-10%), one-hand (-5%), none required (-0%)
Words: "strongly spoken" (-10%), "softly spoken" (-5%), none required (-0%) {Updated in Post #6}
Material Components: Consumable Reagents (-10%), Reusable Focus (-10%), none required (-0%)

Couple of questions...

1. Do those levels seem appropriate?
2. Does the limitation for "strongly spoken" seem to be enough to cover "you must be able to speak in a strong voice" (thus being gagged or otherwise muted prevents casting entirely) and "being deafened leads to a 20% chance of spell failure"? (I'm thinking this should be both an accessibility, at 10%, and something else combined)

[Gef]

The first two, yes. For material components, you may wish to set price thresholds and give a bigger discount for more expensive ingredients. For a specially prepared focus, you may want to use Gadget. -GEF

PS: If you have some time, read this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=86470

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Gef

The first two, yes. For material components, you may wish to set price thresholds and give a bigger discount for more expensive ingredients. For a specially prepared focus, you may want to use Gadget. -GEF

I was thinking of that, trying to figure out how to build the scale for that... I also think the numbers above are a bit off for my plans, trying to figure out the repricing of that.

Originally Posted by Gef

PS: If you have some time, read this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=86470

Thanks for the reminder, starting to reread that now

[mhd]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Gestures: Full body (-15%), two-hands (-10%), one-hand (-5%), none required (-0%)
Words: "strongly spoken" (-10%), "softly spoken" (-5%), none required (-0%)
Material Components: Consumable Reagents (-10%), Reusable Focus (-10%), none required (-0%)

Seems a bit too good for me. P181 lists "the need to perform brief incantations, make small “casting” gestures, and have “spell components” to hand" as -10% total. With your system that's between -20% and -35%… Never mind that you'd have to be careful which modifiers are worth anything per spell, as being obvious ("strongly spoken") doesn't get you anything if you're throwing around explosive fireballs.

And why would "softly spoken" *not* be subject to gagging?

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by mhd

Seems a bit too good for me. P181 lists "the need to perform brief incantations, make small “casting” gestures, and have “spell components” to hand" as -10% total. With your system that's between -20% and -35%… Never mind that you'd have to be careful which modifiers are worth anything per spell, as being obvious ("strongly spoken") doesn't get you anything if you're throwing around explosive fireballs.

And why would "softly spoken" *not* be subject to gagging?

You're exactly right about softly spoken (see my following post about a rewrite of the Verbal Component limitations). On your reference to P181, that's for Psi and my reference to P116 is specifically for Fantasy Powers where each of the three is -10% for a total of -30% (and that's RAW).

[nerdvana]

Re-written Verbal Components:

Full Invocation, -17% (either Accessibility, only when caster can hear (-10%) or Unreliable 11 (-20%), -2%; Requires Magic Words, -10%; Nuisance Effect, cannot use stealth while evoking, -5%)

Soft Invocation, -10% (Requires Magic Words, -10%)

Silent Casting, -0%

As I interpret it "Requires Magic Words" means that if you cannot speak the words you cannot cast the spell. Its an Accessibility Limitation as recommended on p. P116. The Either/Or was built by RPK in a different thread when I proved to not understand his Either/Or build discussion.

[mhd]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

On your reference to P181, that's for Psi and my reference to P116 is specifically for Fantasy Powers where each of the three is -10% for a total of -30% (and that's RAW).

Hmm, missed that. Weird, don't see why it would make a difference whether the base power is psi or magic.

Never mind that it does seem a bit too good. How much of a detriment is a single second of speech? I can understand the gestures a bit, if it requires at least one hand free (although by the same logic, a gun as a Power would have that for aiming and pulling the trigger). And to be honest, if I'd give -10% for components, I'd actually require the wizards to track them, not the usual D&D hand-waving. But, well…

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by mhd

And to be honest, if I'd give -10% for components, I'd actually require the wizards to track them, not the usual D&D hand-waving. But, well…

I intend to make the players track their components similarly to how I would make CyberPunks track their bullets.

Originally Posted by mhd

Hmm, missed that. Weird, don't see why it would make a difference whether the base power is psi or magic.

Possibly genre conventions?

[mhd]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

I intend to make the players track their components similarly to how I would make CyberPunks track their bullets.

So not at all? (My Cyberpunk experience was definitely more "style
over substance" than tacticool)

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Possibly genre conventions?

How would that change the worth of a generic limitation?

Maybe it's just assumed that they're not "really" required for psi and just pure tradition, so it doesn't need to be as stringently enforced.

(I'd definitely buy a Power Ups: Modifiers. I'm doing magic as powers myself, and especially all the time and use limitations really get confusing…)

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by mhd

Hmm, missed that. Weird, don't see why it would make a difference whether the base power is psi or magic.

Never mind that it does seem a bit too good. How much of a detriment is a single second of speech? I can understand the gestures a bit, if it requires at least one hand free (although by the same logic, a gun as a Power would have that for aiming and pulling the trigger). And to be honest, if I'd give -10% for components, I'd actually require the wizards to track them, not the usual D&D hand-waving. But, well…

You probably shouldn't use the differing assumptions in the same game. Here's an old post of Kromm's talking about those fantasy Accessibilities.
The rest of that thread might also be of some interest.