[Technical Solutions] Complete Guide to Tanking in GURPS

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Wait. What you're looking for is Extra Attack, sure (so you can attack a foe in front of you), and then Wait, so that if someone tries to run past, you can smack 'em.

There's no special rule needed for this; interrupting movement is what Waits are for.

Extra Attack only works if you take an Attack manuever (including any variations of that theme). It doesn't work with Move, Concentrate, Aim or Wait.

That is, you can convert your wait into an Attack and an Extra Attack, but you can't make your Extra Attack and then Wait.

[Anthony]

The main reason for not charging past a front line defender in GURPS is the risk that they'll turn around and whack you in the back. Of course, if you have buddies, they can in turn whack the defender in the back, so this is a somewhat limited threat. The fact is, real-world 'tanking' is mostly about being in the way -- take a wait, and if they run forward, step into their path and attack them. Even if your attack fails to stop them, they can't continue without slamming in to you. In reality, it's very hard for a single person to 'tank' except by being too dangerous to ignore (and even that rarely works against more than one foe at a time), it's more the role of a line or formation of multiple people (defensive/offensive line in football, say, or a shield line).

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The main reason for not charging past a front line defender in GURPS is the risk that they'll turn around and whack you in the back. Of course, if you have buddies, they can in turn whack the defender in the back, so this is a somewhat limited threat. The fact is, real-world 'tanking' is mostly about being in the way -- take a wait, and if they run forward, step into their path and attack them. Even if your attack fails to stop them, they can't continue without slamming in to you. In reality, it's very hard for a single person to 'tank' except by being too dangerous to ignore (and even that rarely works against more than one foe at a time), it's more the role of a line or formation of multiple people (defensive/offensive line in football, say, or a shield line).

Yes, the Wait manoeuver on a 1 second timescale represents what the AoO rules did on D&D's 6 second timescale. The other option is having a ranged weapon ready to shoot anyone who comes forward or leaves cover, but again that uses a Wait manoeuver (or the suppressive fire rules).

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Extra Attack only works if you take an Attack manuever (including any variations of that theme). It doesn't work with Move, Concentrate, Aim or Wait.

That is, you can convert your wait into an Attack and an Extra Attack, but you can't make your Extra Attack and then Wait.

I'd house-rule this in an instant, for the reasons I state above. It's an elegatn solution. I would probably force a Per roll to execute this in combat, maybe a perception-based weapon skill roll, but I'd definitely allow it.

I'm not saying your quotation of RAW is wrong. It's just something that feels like a change would be a good addition to a fighter's capabilities.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'd house-rule this in an instant, for the reasons I state above. It's an elegatn solution. I would probably force a Per roll to execute this in combat, maybe a perception-based weapon skill roll, but I'd definitely allow it.

I'm not saying your quotation of RAW is wrong. It's just something that feels like a change would be a good addition to a fighter's capabilities.

Sure, it's a good addition to a fighter's capabilities, but that doesn't change the fact that an Extra Attack that works with a manuever that isn't some variety of Attack is worth more than 25 points. You'll note that the cost of being able to choose two different manuevers in a turn is worth 100 points and this is clearly a limited version of that.

If taking Extra Attack for 25 points conferred this ability, no fighting character would ever not take it. That is an indication that it might be overpowered.

[swampthing]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

From what I've heard, the AoO rules in D&D3 were terribly difficult to learn and arbitrate

It's admittedly a bit of an aside, but the only AoO rule from D&D3 that's relevant to the topic at hand is basically "if you exit a square that's threatened by a melee weapon, its wielder gets to thwack you one." It's not rocket science.

[kdtipa]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Even more realistic is the ability to control ground, via something similar to the attack-of-opportunity rule from D&D3, which among other reasons exists to discourage "en passant"-style movement where the NPCs run past the warrior so they can hack away at the squishy party wizard with their swords. From what I've heard, the AoO rules in D&D3 were terribly difficult to learn and arbitrate, and I'd very much like something simpler and more "en passant"-focused for my own design projects, but I haven't got anything yet, so have nothing to share. The kernel of such abilities in GURPS is pretty obvious: Extra Attack with a Limitation -?? Only To Prevent En Passant-style Movement. The devil is in the details, though. Defining exactly when such Extra Attacks may be used, via objective rules.

In D&D the round is 6 seconds long, and attacks of opportunity are things that fit into that time. To translate that to the one second round in GURPS, I don't think you anything as complicated as limited extra attacks. If the tank's goal is to keep people from moving past him, the "wait" maneuver seems like the obvious choice... just say you're waiting for a foe to try to get past you. Seems a realistic way to model it too. The tank is standing there threateningly, the target can tell that the tank is waiting to be in reach, and you get the same psychological effect as Attacks of Opportunity... bad guys will think twice about going past the tank. And if the tank gets a chance to take a swing in 6 rounds, it would be pretty much the same thing as the D&D round (which is far too abstract for my taste).

Edit: Sorry for repeating what lots of people said. I just hadn't read that far yet and I didn't want to forget as I continued reading.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Perks and Techniques

Vicky, Vicky, Vicky... how could you forget Sacrificial Parry? Along with Shield Wall Training, it's the bread and butter of a GURPS tank. In fact, a character dual wielding fencing weapons with Weapon Master can parry an absurd number of attacks. If such weapons are reach 2, he can protect anyone in a 5 yard diameter circle.

Also, Edged Rapiers (a fencing weapon with reach 2 and swing capabilities) coupled with Weapon Master and ST 13 allow them to present a reasonable threat.

IME, tanks in DF take either this route (the Swashbuckler build) or the heavy armor and shield route (the Knight build). Two handed weapons are only viable if you use the rules in MH that halve the multiple parry penalty with them. That is, unless it's the Zweihander.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Vicky, Vicky, Vicky... how could you forget Sacrificial Parry? Along with Shield Wall Training, it's the bread and butter of a GURPS tank.

Because it is in PU2 and not MA. Adding.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

In fact, a character dual wielding fencing weapons with Weapon Master can parry an absurd number of attacks. If such weapons are reach 2, he can protect anyone in a 5 yard diameter circle.

So can a tank wielding a Two-Handed Weapon, especially a Polearm (Staff). However, the Rapier is a flimsy weapon that will easily break. Which reminds me of another Technique . . .

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Two handed weapons are only viable if you use the rules in MH that halve the multiple parry penalty with them. That is, unless it's the Zweihander.

Uh, MA too.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Because it is in PU2 and not MA. Adding.

So can a tank wielding a Two-Handed Weapon, especially a Polearm (Staff). However, the Rapier is a flimsy weapon that will easily break. Which reminds me of another Technique . . .

The Edged Rapier is a 3 lbs. weapon, same as a thrusting broadsword. LTC2 gives it the same DR and HP too. It's probably too good though. A quarterstaff is 4 lbs. The difference isn't that big.

EDIT: also, even if the reduced parry penalties for two handed weapons, dual edged rapiers comes ahead once you start raining attacks:

Assuming Skill 16, combat reflexes, and off hand weapon training for the rapier:
Parry sequence
Staff: 14/12/10/8/6/4
Dual Rapiers: 12/12/10/10/8/8/6/6/4/4