Rapier Wit is kinda awesome

[Mailanka]

Running a practice fight with one of my players in my samurai campaign, and the topic of her (chi-based) Rapier Wit comes up. She's a sassy lass, and she's got gobs of Public Speaking (thanks to her enormous Charisma), so it's a pretty effective technique. As we play out the fight, it becomes obvious that Rapier Wit + Attack is a devastatingly effective combo.

Rapier Wit is, according to the book (and I've seen nothing that contradicts it) a free action. Nothing stops you from rolling Public Speaking every turn as you mock your opponent mercilessly to get a mental stun on him. Once he's stunned, it's unlikely to last long (most of her opponents have Combat Reflexes, so they'll snap free of the stun quickly), but since it's free, she can just attack once she's landed her insult and she'll probably get through their defenses.

Now, I'm not saying it's overpowered. Because it's chi-based, Mind Shield, Chi Resistance and numerous other traits will resist. Unfazeable makes you immune (and I've ruled that Indomitable does the same, because it's my game and I can), and there's plenty of ways to defeat it.

But for 5 points, it seems pretty impressively powerful. Is there something I'm missing? Or am I doing it right, and it's a totally great power if you're built for it?

[the adventurer]

"You fight like a dairy farmer."

[bocharuk]

Originally Posted by the adventurer

"You fight like a dairy farmer."

"What a coincidence. You fight like a cow."

[jamesfoxbr]

I remember the battles of the game Monkey Island 2
http://www.worldofmi.com/gamehelp/insults/mi1.php

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by bocharuk

"What a coincidence. You fight like a cow."

"Yet it was your mother than I milked last night."

[daniel_gudman]

Personally I've always considered Rapier Wit a very cinematic Advantage.

I mean, if you're using it against a mook, then maybe you could get to use-as-written (but, y u not shoot mook???), but against a serious character?

Maybe you could make somebody really angry, but if it's game effect, that's more like, "Affliction (causes Disadvantage: Berserk; limitations: sound-based, must share language)" or something. If it's something like mind-games that grind away at the opponent's confidence, than that's full-blown Fast-Talk with relevant modifiers for what's going on in the combat (you Feint successfully etc)--and it takes Fast-Talk amounts of time, ie, not a free action.

Or maybe you could have the training to have two fights at once--swords and debating--and your objective is to split the opponent's attention so they get distracted and present an opening.

I guess the thing is, I'm trying to imagine like two boxers in a punch-up, and I cannot imagine anything one boxer could just say that would be so shocking or clever that the other boxer would be mentally stunned. Not just professionals, but even two high-school boxers or something.

Any situation that's deadly serious--like a sword fight--I'd give hefty bonuses for a character having the perspective to realize that words don't stab people, swords stab people, and prioritizing their attentions accordingly.

Anyway, if a player brought a character like this to the game, then first I would ponder that realistic-vs-cinematic thing, and if I decided it fit, than I would probably be with the "once per person per encounter" thing; and I would allow the mooks to (take a free action to) shout "Don't let 'em get to ya Jerry thar tryin' to rattle yer cage!" to give each other bonuses once it became clear what was going on, so it might be at the level of a "once per encounter" thing.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Originally Posted by daniel_gudman

Personally I've always considered Rapier Wit a very cinematic Advantage.

More than that actually "This advantage is usually only appropriate in a silly campaign!" (italics author's, B79 - last line of the Advantage description.)

[Purple Haze]

Originally Posted by daniel_gudman

Personally I've always considered Rapier Wit a very cinematic Advantage.

I mean, if you're using it against a mook, then maybe you could get to use-as-written (but, y u not shoot mook???), but against a serious character?

Maybe you could make somebody really angry, but if it's game effect, that's more like, "Affliction (causes Disadvantage: Berserk; limitations: sound-based, must share language)" or something. If it's something like mind-games that grind away at the opponent's confidence, than that's full-blown Fast-Talk with relevant modifiers for what's going on in the combat (you Feint successfully etc)--and it takes Fast-Talk amounts of time, ie, not a free action.

Or maybe you could have the training to have two fights at once--swords and debating--and your objective is to split the opponent's attention so they get distracted and present an opening.

I guess the thing is, I'm trying to imagine like two boxers in a punch-up, and I cannot imagine anything one boxer could just say that would be so shocking or clever that the other boxer would be mentally stunned. Not just professionals, but even two high-school boxers or something.

Any situation that's deadly serious--like a sword fight--I'd give hefty bonuses for a character having the perspective to realize that words don't stab people, swords stab people, and prioritizing their attentions accordingly.

Anyway, if a player brought a character like this to the game, then first I would ponder that realistic-vs-cinematic thing, and if I decided it fit, than I would probably be with the "once per person per encounter" thing; and I would allow the mooks to (take a free action to) shout "Don't let 'em get to ya Jerry thar tryin' to rattle yer cage!" to give each other bonuses once it became clear what was going on, so it might be at the level of a "once per encounter" thing.

NFL, NBA, and MLB use it on each other frequently. Sometimes to great effect.

[Pagan]

Originally Posted by daniel_gudman

Personally I've always considered Rapier Wit a very cinematic Advantage.

I mean, if you're using it against a mook, then maybe you could get to use-as-written (but, y u not shoot mook???), but against a serious character?

Maybe you could make somebody really angry, but if it's game effect, that's more like, "Affliction (causes Disadvantage: Berserk; limitations: sound-based, must share language)" or something. If it's something like mind-games that grind away at the opponent's confidence, than that's full-blown Fast-Talk with relevant modifiers for what's going on in the combat (you Feint successfully etc)--and it takes Fast-Talk amounts of time, ie, not a free action.

Or maybe you could have the training to have two fights at once--swords and debating--and your objective is to split the opponent's attention so they get distracted and present an opening.

I guess the thing is, I'm trying to imagine like two boxers in a punch-up, and I cannot imagine anything one boxer could just say that would be so shocking or clever that the other boxer would be mentally stunned. Not just professionals, but even two high-school boxers or something.

"What's My Name", Muhammad Ali to Ernie Terrel.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

"Yet it was your mother than I milked last night."

"No, actually it wasn't. And I must say, your technique could use a lot more practice."