Non-lethal force vs cybershell suspect

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Thanks Phil - Tangler it is.
Sooo many options... like flying spotter/ designator shells with stand-off units launching homing gyroc rounds - tangler to capture, HEMP to kill.

The snag with gyroc tanglers is that, well, if you're following Ultra-Tech, they don't happen at all, and if you're following the original TS book, they give a ST 10 restraint, which is somewhat less than reliable. I suspect if you're trying for long-range less-than-lethal attacks using gyroc technology, your best better is an aerosol or liquid dispenser round loaded with something exotic and fast-acting. Of course, that probably only works against against organics... If a cop is having to hit a rogue shell at long range with 15mm, we're probably back to sod-it-it'll-be-backed-up territory.

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Stingray: did you see that shotshell with built-in taser? Like a mini baton round with a shocking follow-up. That's a Warhead option to add.

Sorry, is this something in the real world or what? (It sounds a bit over-engineered and fragile for TL8. Might work at TL10, but an electrolaser will usually be a better bet by then.)

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

The snag with gyroc tanglers is that, well, if you're following Ultra-Tech, they don't happen at all, and if you're following the original TS book, they give a ST 10 restraint, which is somewhat less than reliable. I suspect if you're trying for long-range less-than-lethal attacks using gyroc technology, your best better is an aerosol or liquid dispenser round loaded with something exotic and fast-acting. Of course, that probably only works against against organics... If a cop is having to hit a rogue shell at long range with 15mm, we're probably back to sod-it-it'll-be-backed-up territory.

Ah. Hadn't gotten around to the numbers. Bigger launchers for bigger problems it is.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Sorry, is this something in the real world or what? (It sounds a bit over-engineered and fragile for TL8. Might work at TL10, but an electrolaser will usually be a better bet by then.)

Real world but in field trial.

[sjard]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

("They were helicopters, but too small to carry anybody. Smaller than the smallest micro-light. Kind of dish-shaped. French Aerospatiale gun-platforms, the kind you saw on the news from Mexico City ... One of them swung by, about twenty feet over his head, and he saw the clustered tubes of some kind of gun or rocket-launcher.

"'Damn,' Rydell said, looking up at the future of armed response.

"'POLICE EMERGENCY. REMAIN CALM.'")

Sorry for the slight side track, but which of Gibson's Bridge trilogy is that from? My memory keeps telling me Virtual Light, but I'm not certain.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by sjard

Sorry for the slight side track, but which of Gibson's Bridge trilogy is that from? My memory keeps telling me Virtual Light, but I'm not certain.

Yeah, Virtual Light. It's the final climactic confrontation scene.

[sjard]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Yeah, Virtual Light. It's the final climactic confrontation scene.

Thanks, I haven't read that in about a decade. Need to dust it off again one of these days.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by sjard

Thanks, I haven't read that in about a decade. Need to dust it off again one of these days.

Dang - me too. I didn't even vaguely recognize it and I just got All Tomorrows Parties. I'll blame all those Game of Throne and VorKosigan novels:)

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I've generally assumed that electrolasers will work against cybershells, unless they have some kind of appropriate defence or advantage; high-frequency electrical pulses should cause significant temporary disruption to electronic systems, I'd assume.

Realistically, with modern IC chips, high frequency electrical pulses tend to burn out the teeny little transistors first - essentially "killing" the "brain" while leaving the structure of the electronic device intact. You could always say that THS electronics use nano-diamond-vacuum-gap circuitry or something equally exotic to get around this, of course. You can also have very fast acting surge protectors for some protection (the surge protector trips, and will need to be reset before the electronic device can be used again, but it is not "dead"). You could also keep the "brain" in a Faraday cage, communicating with the body via optical cables - the electrical surge would burn out whatever chips are responsible for moving the actuators and the equivalents of autonomic responses, they would need to be replaced by the electronic brain would still be alive.

Luke

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

Realistically, with modern IC chips, high frequency electrical pulses tend to burn out the teeny little transistors first - essentially "killing" the "brain" while leaving the structure of the electronic device intact. You could always say that THS electronics use nano-diamond-vacuum-gap circuitry or something equally exotic to get around this, of course. You can also have very fast acting surge protectors for some protection (the surge protector trips, and will need to be reset before the electronic device can be used again, but it is not "dead"). You could also keep the "brain" in a Faraday cage, communicating with the body via optical cables - the electrical surge would burn out whatever chips are responsible for moving the actuators and the equivalents of autonomic responses, they would need to be replaced by the electronic brain would still be alive.

Luke

That sounds like the perfect answer to players asking why the surge didn't just kill the cyber; and it recovers "consciousness" because its nano-repair has fixed the minor burnouts/ it's reset its trip-switch. Cyber don't lose consciousness as bios do, they temporarily cease to be able to function.

[wellspring]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

Realistically, with modern IC chips, high frequency electrical pulses tend to burn out the teeny little transistors first - essentially "killing" the "brain" while leaving the structure of the electronic device intact. You could always say that THS electronics use nano-diamond-vacuum-gap circuitry or something equally exotic to get around this, of course. You can also have very fast acting surge protectors for some protection (the surge protector trips, and will need to be reset before the electronic device can be used again, but it is not "dead"). You could also keep the "brain" in a Faraday cage, communicating with the body via optical cables - the electrical surge would burn out whatever chips are responsible for moving the actuators and the equivalents of autonomic responses, they would need to be replaced by the electronic brain would still be alive.

Luke

In the original THS book, they describe computers as having gone several technological leaps beyond electronics (and therefore are immune to EMP). Phil's lead the charge to get rid of that.

I agree with Anthony on this one. Your best "non-lethal weapon" (actually, as with humans, less-lethal) against a cyber shell is something that damages the body, like projectile weapons. Unless the computer is physically damaged, the AI will survive and can be repaired once incarcerated.

As with humans, sufficiently prepared AI's can harden themselves against any kind of less-lethal attack. In which case, as with humans, you have to resort to deadly force.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

Realistically, with modern IC chips, high frequency electrical pulses tend to burn out the teeny little transistors first - essentially "killing" the "brain" while leaving the structure of the electronic device intact. You could always say that THS electronics use nano-diamond-vacuum-gap circuitry or something equally exotic to get around this, of course. You can also have very fast acting surge protectors for some protection (the surge protector trips, and will need to be reset before the electronic device can be used again, but it is not "dead"). You could also keep the "brain" in a Faraday cage, communicating with the body via optical cables - the electrical surge would burn out whatever chips are responsible for moving the actuators and the equivalents of autonomic responses, they would need to be replaced by the electronic brain would still be alive.

Luke

I really don't understand why GURPS is so averse to optical computers. Aren't we moving towards that kind of future?