Need help with CAG/Delta/SOFD-D Operator - Page 4

TheOneRonin · 08-07-2011, 09:05 PM

Coming off of finishing Eric L. Haney's Inside Delta Force, and having previously read Beckwith's Delta Force and Dalton Fury's Kill Bin Laden, I've decided to do my best to create the best approximation of a Delta Operator/Assaulter, circa current day. My tools for this exercise are the Basic set, High Tech, SEALs in Vietnam, and Tactical Shooting.

One of the troubles I'm having is building my Operator to the level where he can accomplish what seems to be something that, per Eric Haney, is part of the Delta OTC and something that all Delta operators must be capable of doing.

About a third of the way through the book (my Kindle edition doesn't have page numbers), Haney talks about his experience in the Delta "Shoot House". Basically, he and the rest of the trainees sat in a mockup of an house with mannequins...some were hostages, and some were terrorists. Here's an excerpt:

================================================== =======

Our OTC class, all 23 of us, was taken in to the big room of the Shooting House. Some were seated on the sofa, some sat around a card table, more were scattered around the corners, and the rest stood in a the center of the room.

<snip>

What happened next was so fast, it was impossible to follow. The room erupted in noise and violent action. On the first "Execute!" the door to the room blasted open and I could see Allen [Delta Cadre] coming through at a run. At the very instant he came in, something flew from his hand toward the ceiling at the center of the room and exploded. I tried to watch the team as they came in, by my eye - and everyone else's - had been irresistibly drawn to that flying flash-bang. When it exploded above our heads, I hardly heard the pistols and submachine guns going off all around us. I was stunned motionless.

It was over in less than 3 seconds. Our instructors were posted all about the room. Allen was in one corner and Mike [Delta Cadre] was in the opposite diagonal corner. Bob [Delta Cadre] was just to the left of the door and Bill [Delta Cadre] was just to the right.

<snip>

I looked around the room and saw that each 'terrorist' had two bullet holes in a vital spot: either the head, the center of chest, or the throat. How the hell had they done that with us all around the room and intermingled with the targets? It seemed impossible, that all of hose bullets missed us. Someone should have been hit - but we were all whole and unperforated. It was unreal?

================================================== =======

Even giving Mr. Haney some consideration for dramatic license, this is exactly the sort of thing that a real-life Delta operator should be able to do.

Sticking within the "Guns Skill Levels" sidebar on page 42 of Tactical Shooting, the Delta Assaulters' GUNS skill should cap at about 18.

So, say our Operator has Guns(SMG) at 18. Let's say he also has bought CBQ (SMGs) up to Guns +4, and has TA: Skull bought up to -3 from -7.

Assuming the "terrorists" are no further than 5 yards away (-2 to skill), the operator is performing a "Move and Attack" maneuver (which precludes the possibility of any Aim actions" and is firing ar ROF 2 (controlled pairs) with an MP5A3 at the skull of the terrorists (-3), you come out with a modified skill of 13. You'll need to roll 11 or less on 3d6 to have both shots hit the skull.

This means that a VERY skilled shooter (Guns 18 + techniques maxed) only has a 62% chance of making those shots. If you ask me 62% isn't going to be good enough to pass the Delta OTC. On the other hand, a skill level of 21, which would end up with a 90% chance to pull off those shots, seems absurdly high for a realistic game.

Is there something I'm missing? Is my math off. Or is this skill level something that GURPS simply cannot represent without superhuman levels of Guns skill?

08-07-2011, 09:05 PM	#1
TheOneRonin Join Date: Oct 2010	Need help with CAG/Delta/SOFD-D Operator Coming off of finishing Eric L. Haney's Inside Delta Force, and having previously read Beckwith's Delta Force and Dalton Fury's Kill Bin Laden, I've decided to do my best to create the best approximation of a Delta Operator/Assaulter, circa current day. My tools for this exercise are the Basic set, High Tech, SEALs in Vietnam, and Tactical Shooting. One of the troubles I'm having is building my Operator to the level where he can accomplish what seems to be something that, per Eric Haney, is part of the Delta OTC and something that all Delta operators must be capable of doing. About a third of the way through the book (my Kindle edition doesn't have page numbers), Haney talks about his experience in the Delta "Shoot House". Basically, he and the rest of the trainees sat in a mockup of an house with mannequins...some were hostages, and some were terrorists. Here's an excerpt: ================================================== ======= Our OTC class, all 23 of us, was taken in to the big room of the Shooting House. Some were seated on the sofa, some sat around a card table, more were scattered around the corners, and the rest stood in a the center of the room. <snip> What happened next was so fast, it was impossible to follow. The room erupted in noise and violent action. On the first "Execute!" the door to the room blasted open and I could see Allen [Delta Cadre] coming through at a run. At the very instant he came in, something flew from his hand toward the ceiling at the center of the room and exploded. I tried to watch the team as they came in, by my eye - and everyone else's - had been irresistibly drawn to that flying flash-bang. When it exploded above our heads, I hardly heard the pistols and submachine guns going off all around us. I was stunned motionless. It was over in less than 3 seconds. Our instructors were posted all about the room. Allen was in one corner and Mike [Delta Cadre] was in the opposite diagonal corner. Bob [Delta Cadre] was just to the left of the door and Bill [Delta Cadre] was just to the right. <snip> I looked around the room and saw that each 'terrorist' had two bullet holes in a vital spot: either the head, the center of chest, or the throat. How the hell had they done that with us all around the room and intermingled with the targets? It seemed impossible, that all of hose bullets missed us. Someone should have been hit - but we were all whole and unperforated. It was unreal? ================================================== ======= Even giving Mr. Haney some consideration for dramatic license, this is exactly the sort of thing that a real-life Delta operator should be able to do. Sticking within the "Guns Skill Levels" sidebar on page 42 of Tactical Shooting, the Delta Assaulters' GUNS skill should cap at about 18. So, say our Operator has Guns(SMG) at 18. Let's say he also has bought CBQ (SMGs) up to Guns +4, and has TA: Skull bought up to -3 from -7. Assuming the "terrorists" are no further than 5 yards away (-2 to skill), the operator is performing a "Move and Attack" maneuver (which precludes the possibility of any Aim actions" and is firing ar ROF 2 (controlled pairs) with an MP5A3 at the skull of the terrorists (-3), you come out with a modified skill of 13. You'll need to roll 11 or less on 3d6 to have both shots hit the skull. This means that a VERY skilled shooter (Guns 18 + techniques maxed) only has a 62% chance of making those shots. If you ask me 62% isn't going to be good enough to pass the Delta OTC. On the other hand, a skill level of 21, which would end up with a 90% chance to pull off those shots, seems absurdly high for a realistic game. Is there something I'm missing? Is my math off. Or is this skill level something that GURPS simply cannot represent without superhuman levels of Guns skill?