Explaining the 1 second/turn rationale

[Walrus]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

Start -> (wielding a weapon they don't want like a bow) -> drop weapon -> quick draw first 1-hand weapon -> quick draw second 1-hand weapon -> attack once -> attack twice (using Extra Attack 1) -> End

This is entirely possible even without Extra Attack, just with Dual Weapon Attack.
The only abusing over RAW is
Fast-Drawing -> Attack -> Drop current weapon -> Fast-Drawing -> Extra Attack (with the same hand).
By RAW you don't need Multi-Strike for such attack but by RAI you do.

Though you would suffer the penalties to both Fast Draws (see MA for details) as well as penalty for Fast Drawing with non-main hand.

Don't forget the penalties for Dual Weapon Attack.

So, you only can achieve hit with a lot of points and cinematic traits/skills levels (Extra Attack is nearly cinematic as MA suggests).

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

Ah... I think I miscommunicated a bit here... a turn may go this way.
Start -> (wielding a weapon they don't want like a bow) -> drop weapon -> quick draw first 1-hand weapon -> quick draw second 1-hand weapon -> attack once -> attack twice (using Extra Attack 1) -> End

That's rather different, then, to the point where I don't see a problem. The character can attack twice because he bought a rather expensive advantage which allows him to attack twice, so he's only doing what it says on the tin. Throw in the points necessary to buy up Fast-Draw so he can do that reliably and probably buying Ambidexterity or Off-Hand Weapon Training so he's not just flailing with the second weapon...well, yes, it's impressive, but the character has clearly been built to be impressive in that particular way. He's a talented specialist, capable of doing things that most people can't. (Conversely, he hasn't spent points, more than likely, in other areas: social skills, advantages that make him popular, technical skills, etc. He may be impressive with his weapons, but easy prey for the next con man to stroll by.)

This isn't a problem with turn length, I think, so much as possibly not understanding just how much the character is designed to be a badass. This is a cinematic Western gunslinger or a guy in a John Woo movie. If you don't want this kind of character in your games, you'll want to, as you noted, restrict Extra Attack.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

Holy cow! So many good responses in such a short amount of time. It seems the general feeling is that the 1 second turn is fine. Addressing my concern for the amount of action a PC can perform in one turn, I like the suggestions of limiting communicated information and putting a time pinch on players when their turn comes around. But, as new players, we still get the "ahh... um, I think I want to do this... how do the rules for that work again?"

And for new players trying to feel their way around the rules, this isn't a bad thing. I'd recommend being lenient. If you feel gameplay will be slowed down too much, I'd recommend what's said in Martial Arts, I believe; have a "signature" attack that the character tends to make often. For a gunplay campaign, it can be as simple as, "I aim for a round, then fire, unless less than 10 yards away, then I just fire, and aim for the face", etc.

Either way, get a core idea of what the character will *tend* to do, help them out to having them do it well (Targeted Attack/Pistol/Face for instance!), and then encourage them to do that often. One way to do so -- for melee weapons more than ranged -- is to let them take that one perk (I forget the name), that allows them to do their "signature moves" at +1 if they do them in the order they're listed in a turn. I'm not sure if that can apply to ranged attacks!

However, as a new GM, I will most likely prohibit the taking of Extra Attack for our starting out PCs since there are several other ways to get in extra attacks per turn (Eg. AOA, Rapid Strike, some Gun Fu rules we'll be using). Hopefully that will make it easier for me to balance encounters.

Certainly would! Extra Attack is a powerful option.

EDIT: Most of the players in our current campaign have Quick Draw for everything in their arsenal. This has allowed several players to drop their current weapon, draw new ones, and attack multiple times in one turn.

That... that wouldn't work. At all.

[RussellChamp]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

That... that wouldn't work. At all.

I think I misspoke earlier. Please see my comment above. If this still isn't possible with RAW, could you explain why not?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

However, as a new GM, I will most likely prohibit the taking of Extra Attack for our starting out PCs since there are several other ways to get in extra attacks per turn (Eg. AOA, Rapid Strike, some Gun Fu rules we'll be using). Hopefully that will make it easier for me to balance encounters.

Extra Attack 1 is at least borderline cinematic. Anything more than that is definitely cinematic. High-flying results are to be expected there.

Of course, if the players have enough CP to budget that easily, they could also afford to raise skill a bit, and probably could pull off Dual Weapon Attacks if so inclined.

How much armor were you giving the enemies? Mincing people up with dual one-handed weapons can lose a lot of shine against enemies in proper armor. Unless your PCs are also very strong, of course.

[Brandy]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

EDIT: Most of the players in our current campaign have Quick Draw for everything in their arsenal in addition to Extra Attack. This has allowed several players to drop their current weapon, draw new ones, and attack multiple times in one turn.

As described, they can do this.

Drop Weapon(s) (Free) -> Fast Draw (Free if successful) -> Fast Draw (Free if successful) - > Attack -> Extra Attack.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

EDIT: Most of the players in our current campaign have Quick Draw for everything in their arsenal in addition to Extra Attack. This has allowed several players to drop their current weapon, draw new ones, and attack multiple times in one turn.

Sounds like you are running a cinematic, combat focused, high-powered game. Then you shouldn't be surprised you get results like that.

There are different ways to use the toolkit where you'd end up having very different experiences. I tend to run games with a huge emphasis on non-combat skills. For example, every PC is going to have to spend 1cp on Area Knowledge (Home Town)...then I ask them what sort of trade/job skills they learned growing up...or what skills do they use to make money. Then I ask about hobbies. Then I ask about...

Basically, with starting cp of 150, a lack of cinematic advantages, and an emphasis on well rounded PCs...I have rarely had PCs take Extra Attack and Quick Draw for everything...because they just didn't have the points for it.

So, in some GURPS games you'll have people fast-drawing and attacking three times. But in others people will have to Evaluate every couple of seconds just to be able to connect their fist to the opponent's jaw.

If you don't want such a cinematic feel, adjust which options are available to your PCs.

[Xplo]

Originally Posted by RussellChamp

I like the suggestions of limiting communicated information and putting a time pinch on players when their turn comes around. But, as new players, we still get the "ahh... um, I think I want to do this... how do the rules for that work again?"

Well, it's not GURPS' fault that you can't make up your minds quickly. If one-second turns feel strange when it takes you forever to deliberate on what to do, blame yourselves. ;)

People who do this generally assume familiarity with the combat system. If you're all new, I'd extend the time limit; 30 seconds or a minute should be plenty. But unless you all want to have the possibility that someone could spend five minutes looking up, say, grappling rules on their turn before deciding what to do, you probably should have some sort of time limit. Think of being able to make quick decisions about whether to use obscure combat options the reward for learning them.

[RussellChamp]

Originally Posted by Xplo

Well, it's not GURPS' fault that you can't make up your minds quickly. If one-second turns feel strange when it takes you forever to deliberate on what to do, blame yourselves. ;)

People who do this generally assume familiarity with the combat system. If you're all new, I'd extend the time limit; 30 seconds or a minute should be plenty. But unless you all want to have the possibility that someone could spend five minutes looking up, say, grappling rules on their turn before deciding what to do, you probably should have some sort of time limit. Think of being able to make quick decisions about whether to use obscure combat options the reward for learning them.

This actually sounds perfect. We've gotten most of the core rules down from this first campaign (eg attacking, defending, aoa, misc skills) so this would now be a lot more viable.

[smurf]

Print off the battle cards from the pdf.

Each player has a set. They ought to remove the ones they do not need. Note there are GM specific cards within it.

You can't fight and talk so get them to flip cards on what they are doing.

If they take wait maneauvers then have a 3d6 second lull, the first person to say something leads and return to combat. If someone shouts over the first person then ssshh them.

Note the PCs do not have to listen to what was said.

The cards will make it easier.