[DF] DF13 - Loadouts Errata thread

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

This, in almost exactly those words when I was discussing it with Kromm. He wanted to be sure that anything which might provide DR was explicitly purchased. The footgear which comes with clothing (slippers, very thin sandals, etc.) provides no protection. Only the stuff you buy gives DR.

Which makes perfect sense, people have a tendency to underestimate how much good boots cost, how having a pair of good boots wasn't a given for anyone, and that having those good boots was often a point of status.

One of the things I loved about the Discworld novel Men at Arms was the Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice as seen through a really good pair of leather boots.

[Bruno]

I've always assumed the "free" footware included with "free" clothing was, if not slippers/footwraps/simple flipflops, it was in modern eras crappy canvas shoes.

The difference between a 10$ or 15$ pair of WalMart shoes, which cover your feet enough for "No Shirt No Shoes No Service" purposes and to avoid getting dog poop on your feet, and a decent pair of leather shoes, well made cloth or synthetic shoes, good sandals, etc.

The WalMart shoes, if you step on a broken lightbulb or a tack or nail, do you no good at all. Horrible personal experience speaking here >.<

If they're "real" shoes, they're old second or third hand shoes and have been worn down enough to be crap :)


My players are occasionally torn between an honorable desire to bury slain foes in their boots, "like decent people" and stealing nice footwear :)

[pyratejohn]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Which makes perfect sense, people have a tendency to underestimate how much good boots cost, how having a pair of good boots wasn't a given for anyone, and that having those good boots was often a point of status.

It's kinda like a really good pair of 100% accurate, hand-made, reenacting shoes. I was lucky to find a pair that some guy had on a blanket sale at Fort Frederick four or five years ago. At $200 they were a steal, because that's half what he paid for them.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Deluxe Delver's Kit includes 5 pints of oil, but no container

All liquids in GURPS equipment lists assume basic containers; they aren't just dispensed into your hand ("Pour it in my hand for a dime?"). The container is liable to be lightweight and crummy if you don't buy anything better, though: a leaky bag of leaves or bark at TL0, a thin bladder at TL3, a thin aluminium can or plastic bottle at TL8.

Originally Posted by Bruno

No, Footware is included in the clothing.

Correct. The default footwear at low TLs is cloth rags, which are in fact what most people had to wear. Shoes and boots heavy enough to afford DR to any part of the foot and show up as separate encumbrance would be luxury items. At higher TLs, substitute "cheap canvas sneaker" for "cloth rags."

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I've always assumed the "free" footware included with "free" clothing was, if not slippers/footwraps/simple flipflops, it was in modern eras crappy canvas shoes.

So just to be silly, and as an example of a data point, I weighed 5 pairs of my shoes* on a kitchen scale which was way more accurate than it needed to be, and rounding to the nearest ounce I get the following:

Slippers (Reef) 1 lbs 2 oz
Running Shoes (Nike Free) 1 lbs 3 oz
Shoes (corfram) 2 lbs 1 oz
Shoes (leather) 3 lbs
Boots (Steel Toed) 5 lbs

I don't have a pair of soft soled moccasins around, so I'm missing that data point, but to me that pretty much says that to not add 1+ lbs in shoes you have to have really teeny weeny feet, or be pretty much barefoot with but a very thin wrap/moccasin...

*11.5M-12D US size, 45-46 EU size.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

I don't have a pair of moccasins around, so I'm missing that data point, but to me that pretty much says that to not add 1+ lbs in shoes you have to have really teeny weeny feet, or be pretty much barefoot with but a very think wrap/moccasin...

Maybe ordinary clothes comes with socks. :)

I'll have to weigh my cheap canvass shoes I use for when I teach, but I know they are heavier than Chuck Ts or my New Balance MT101s. I take my weight training shoes seriously, so they are very light . . . the cheap shoes tend to be heavier, not lighter!

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Maybe ordinary clothes comes with socks. :)

I'll have to weigh my cheap canvass shoes I use for when I teach, but I know they are heavier than Chuck Ts or my New Balance MT101s. I take my weight training shoes seriously, so they are very light . . . the cheap shoes tend to be heavier, not lighter!

The Nike Frees are my lightest* running shoes at 1 lb 3 oz, weighing my other sneakers I get:

Asics, 1 lbs 8 oz
Suede Ahnu, 1 lbs 12 oz
Chuck Ts, 1 lbs 15 oz

So almost 2 lbs for the Chuck Ts, almost the same weight as the corframs.


*Edit: Oh, forgot a pair:

Vibram 5-Fingers, 14 oz

So my most high tech pair of shoes weighs in under a pound, I don't think even moccasins would weigh less than the Vibrams...

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Maybe ordinary clothes comes with socks. :)

I'll have to weigh my cheap canvass shoes I use for when I teach, but I know they are heavier than Chuck Ts or my New Balance MT101s. I take my weight training shoes seriously, so they are very light . . . the cheap shoes tend to be heavier, not lighter!

Why do you need light shoes for weight training? I wouldn't think that would involve that much running.

[Novembermike]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Why do you need light shoes for weight training? I wouldn't think that would involve that much running.

I know some people prefer thing soled shoes because it doesn't change your natural posture (thick soles put weight on the heel, thin soles put it on the balls of your feet). Not sure about weight though.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Why do you need light shoes for weight training? I wouldn't think that would involve that much running.

You need as good a base as possible so as to not risk injury and increase the lifting weight.

That means a flat sole and the ability to have your heel drive up with power, if you're wearing some crappy running shoe with gel or air cushioning you'll be messing up your technique and risking injury as your feet and ankles automatically roll during a lift due to the bad shoe.

A good weightlifting shoe lets you keep your feet and ankles stable without rolling, they are either flat or they have a heel with a hard wedge which is squared off for stability, as opposed to running shoes which are rounded for impact.

Chuck Ts are actually better power lifting shoes than most of the crap out there.

Olympic weight lifting shoes have hard heels, but some people consider them to have too much of a heel for power lifting, but the heel helps some people who can't keep their feet flat avoid taking the heel off the ground, as long as it works for the lifter they're fine, the main thing is stability, which means a hard heel or no heel.