'Mythic' Mafia and their Code of Honor

[hari]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Are you saying that I need go no further in search of justification? Just to make sure we understand each other, I'm also aiming for a culture where high-class organized crime is actually much nicer (to quiet/clueless bystanders, not to whistlers and 'active' cops) than random street thugs and gangs.

Yeah, I suppose the fact that they are not very violent could definitely use a little explanation. I think that the main thing that would influence how violent a criminal group is would be how much violence they experience. How violent are the police? A further justification is much less needed if they are considerably less (or more for that matter) violent than the police, other criminals, and society in general. I suppose you do have to think about how they enforce their rules on the quiet and the clueless.

I wrote, "Think of it as several different competing interests in a society, one of which is represented in the government, and some of whom claim their own authority. Then the only question really is about which interest has the biggest discrepancy between real power and socially and legally accepted power." You called them high class. Maybe they have lots of real power, and it's officially illegal, but people don't really mind all that much in practice? If they are technically breaking the law but nobody cares to enforce those laws on them, they have much less reason to be violent.

What is their relationship to the central government? Is their presence somehow beneficial to the government? If so, how? That would make a lot of sense to me. I could even imagine that their ties to the government are so close that they are able to rely on the police to do their enforcing for them and don't actually have to be violent at all.

On the other hand, if they are at odds and in competition with the government, and the government is repressive or brutal, than we really would need to justify peaceful criminals. That could also be done, but would be harder, and in my opinion harder to make interesting. The first thing that comes to mind along those lines is that they might have some kind of religious reason to avoid violence as much as they can. I don't like it because that feels like dismissing the issue. It would be okay if we thought about why they're so adamantly pacifist. Justifications for them being peaceful even though the police are violent would probably all be like that. They would smell of handwavium and require more background. That could work though.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by hari

Yeah, I suppose the fact that they are not very violent could definitely use a little explanation. I think that the main thing that would influence how violent a criminal group is would be how much violence they experience. How violent are the police? A further justification is much less needed if they are considerably less (or more for that matter) violent than the police, other criminals, and society in general. I suppose you do have to think about how they enforce their rules on the quiet and the clueless.

I wrote, "Think of it as several different competing interests in a society, one of which is represented in the government, and some of whom claim their own authority. Then the only question really is about which interest has the biggest discrepancy between real power and socially and legally accepted power." You called them high class. Maybe they have lots of real power, and it's officially illegal, but people don't really mind all that much in practice? If they are technically breaking the law but nobody cares to enforce those laws on them, they have much less reason to be violent.

What is their relationship to the central government? Is their presence somehow beneficial to the government? If so, how? That would make a lot of sense to me. I could even imagine that their ties to the government are so close that they are able to rely on the police to do their enforcing for them and don't actually have to be violent at all.

On the other hand, if they are at odds and in competition with the government, and the government is repressive or brutal, than we really would need to justify peaceful criminals. That could also be done, but would be harder, and in my opinion harder to make interesting. The first thing that comes to mind along those lines is that they might have some kind of religious reason to avoid violence as much as they can. I don't like it because that feels like dismissing the issue. It would be okay if we thought about why they're so adamantly pacifist. Justifications for them being peaceful even though the police are violent would probably all be like that. They would smell of handwavium and require more background. That could work though.

When I talked about them being not as violent, I primarily meant towards bystanders/clients. They won't pull punches on actual enemies, like another armed Provider during a recognized Feud, or a SWAT officer. But the intent is to make it a default assumption that it is cheaper/more profitable to avoid violence in less volatile situation: it's often preferable to bribe a beat cop than to kill him and risk a large-scale retaliation; it's generally preferable not to make people hate the providers - less disruptive for business.

The political leader generally do oppose them heavily, but the mid-level legal enforcement people aren't paid enough to go gun-ho at every moonshiner they think they know. In general, the organized crime and the cops can go at each other's throats, but neither is very willing to escalate the situation to something where they personally are going to risk their lives every waking hour (occasional risks are plenty enough); there just aren't too many zealots outside the congress. This is kinda like the MAD mentality of the Cold War, to some extent.

Of course, there are always some street thugs and small gangs who are not smart enough to be careful like that. And of course, those Loose Cannons end up between a hämmer and a hard place, since they're ******* off both sides by their activity. Needless to say, there aren't many of those outside of really far-off and ignored neighbourhoods (i.e. those that are neither policed well nor controlled by organized crime).