New to GURPS: Zombie Apocalypse

[Kromey]

Originally Posted by Xplo

You'll note that zombies don't offer much in the way of roleplaying opportunities; if you want RP beyond party infighting then you'll need to have them encounter other survivors (who may want to team up, or scare the PCs away from their hiding places, or take the PCs stuff by threat or force...)

True dat. Which is exactly why they will indeed face other obstacles as they progress through the city -- opportunistic thugs looking for an easy score, holed-up survivors intent on refusing entry to their shelter and sharing their resources, a fire raging out of control over several city blocks requiring alternate routes to be found, etc.

Not everything is about the zombies, they're just the central theme.

Originally Posted by Xplo

About the characters: since they're pregens, they don't really have to have the same point value, just the same amount of useful points. If you've got a character who's an artist (probably won't, but it's just an example) then his Artist skill isn't likely to do him much good, so don't count it in his point total. Your exec might be rich and have skills for running a company, but it's not going to do him much good in a zombie apocalypse, so don't worry about those either; if he ends up being a 115 point character but only 50 points of that are good for anything he's likely to do, it's not really a balance issue.

Huh, I hadn't thought of that. I've read again and again about how point totals don't really mean jack for comparing two characters, but it never occurred to me that that could likewise mean that the point totals don't really matter for the PCs themselves, so long as relative ability in the game is equivalent.

Originally Posted by Xplo

Likewise, don't even worry about point totals for NPCs. Just give them the traits you think they should have. The only time you need to know an NPC's point total is if it's going to be someone's Ally or Enemy, or a template for a shapeshifter, etc. Remember that you can't compare point totals to figure out who's more badass, anyway; a 25-point thug could mop the alley with a 300-point accounting genius, and a 25-point petty bureaucrat is perfectly capable of stonewalling a 300-point ex-Special Forces mercenary, unless he's willing to use violence against City Hall...

Yup. Which is why my initial zombie was just a small set of stats, completely devoid of any points total, and my plan is to just have them do what I need/want them to, and to heck with trying to figure out how to represent all that in RAW! If they have the spider-like ability to just crawl up walls, well, they have the spider-like ability to just crawl up walls -- no need to figure out how many points that costs, unlike a certain other system where such a thing dramatically affects a monster's CR or XP total, but never in a way that actually makes sense!

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Well before running your game, talk to the players about what kind of characters they'd like to play (mechanic, kung-fu master, hobo with a shotgun, epic accountant, etc.), then build those characters. They get characters without having to get their hands dirty with the rules, but they also get what they want.

Oh. Duh! Of course! Also takes some of the onus off of me to invent all these characters entirely on my own!

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

The problem with running "average" people in adventure scenarios is that adventures are difficult and dangerous, and average people caught up in them tend to fail and die. That's realistic, but it may not be the kind of fun you're after. If you want all sneaking and hiding all the time, average people are the ticket. If you want to see some zombie-splattering action, crank up the points. Also, consider metagame-ish advantages like Luck and Common Sense, which allow PCs to be apparently average but a little harder to kill.

That's actually exactly the fun I'm after! :-) The zombie apocalypse is a very dangerous place to be, where people will die, but games always seem to make light of that fact.

Of course, I doubt we'll go quite this gritty for a full-blown campaign, but it suits my purposes for this game.

My books aren't here yet, so I don't know what Luck and Common Sense actually do, but I've got a good idea, I think, from reading other forum posts around the interwebs. And once I do have those books and know what they are, they very likely could find their way into these characters...

[Anders]

If you have characters in niches (for a DF game, things like healer, tank, wizard, etc.) then character points can vary widely. Sure, the other guys are 400 points - but none of them know magic, so your 200-point character still has a chance to shine.

Edit: I'd actually price Serendipity above Luck for this kind of scenario. "What a coincidence, I found a loaded shotgun!"

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Kromey

Huh, I hadn't thought of that. I've read again and again about how point totals don't really mean jack for comparing two characters, but it never occurred to me that that could likewise mean that the point totals don't really matter for the PCs themselves, so long as relative ability in the game is equivalent.

Another GURPS author once described the character point (fairly accurately, I think) as a measurement not of ability, but of player choice. It would follow fairly naturally that if they're not making the individual choices, the points don't matter quite so much.

Originally Posted by Kromey

That's actually exactly the fun I'm after! :-)

Then carry on, sir! Be sure to come up with picturesque descriptions of victims being torn apart.

[martin_rook]

You've gotten lots of good advice, so I'll just give you a brief thought on PCs.

The business exec may very well have decent-to-good interpersonal skills like Leadership, Politics, maybe even Fast-Talk. Maybe advantages like Charisma and Common Sense. An IQ score of around 12 or 13.

The taxi driver should obviously have Driving, but also Navigation and Streetwise (don't know how much good it'll do, though). And Area Knowledge of whatever city she drove in, which may be valuable if it's where the game is set. And as someone pointed out, a mechanic would be very helpful.

The fireman would have skills like Forced Entry and at least a little First Aid. In addition to high HT and ST, his Fatigue would probably be bought up.

The outdoors enthusiast might have a rifle, if she's a hunter, or other (now) valuable equipment like binoculars, a hearty GPS, or a water filter. A machete is actually not likely to be taken on most camping or hiking trips. However, she could easily have lots of skills or non-weapon equipment that makes her invaluable outside of combat. Raise Perception a little.

No thoughts on the martial arts enthusiast, other than I, personally, would instead make them a criminal or street thug and go for Brawling and Axe/Mace (for bats or clubs).

For any and all of the characters, I'd recommend you look at Talents (under advantages) and give them a level or two in something -- even if it doesn't relate to their job/role.

The best way to make them stand out as individuals or be colorful, though, is with Disadvantages. It might be tricky to get your players to role-play them if they don't know about them, so I'd furnish them with a brief description to help give them the idea. ("Before the Zombie Apocalypse, you were a high-class business executive. You're smart, decisive, and know how to motivate people and close deals. You know that there's strength in a good organization and you're driven to build something bigger and better than what your father left you (greed and maybe a vow) -- but when it comes down to it you look out for yourself first (selfish), you assume anyone who's survived this long does too (paranoia), and in this new environment you know that means being ready to sacrifice others to save yourself." "You were a firefighter before the Zombie Apocalypse. Dedicted to saving others, you've spent years putting yourself in harm's way to save the lives of others (Selfless and/or Sense of Duty). Even now that hacking up the undead is a way of life, you refuse to harm -- or let harm come to -- anyone living (Pacifism).")



Or... you could base the PCs (loosely) on your players...

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by Kromey

I am currently GMing a D&D 4e campaign (using a home brew setting based loosely on the old 3.5e setting and the events of a previous epic-level campaign I played in, with several updates drawn from the 4e setting), however I'm finding myself growing more and more... well, bored with 4e. I just feel limited, pigeon-holed into WotC's ideas of what characters somehow are supposed to be. It's very restricting. And I want to break free.

You sound like a GURPS player! :)

Originally Posted by Kromey

However, as I'm sure most of you have seen, there are a lot of RPGers -- seemingly especially those who've "grown up" on D&D -- who are extremely prejudiced against the perceived over-complexity of GURPS. If I were to simply approach my group and say "Hey guys, let's convert to GURPS, whaddya say?" they'd simply lynch me!

Yes. We are well aware of this. The prejudice goes both ways in equal amounts.

The difference is, we're right! ;)

Originally Posted by Kromey

I'm shooting for 50 points (upper "average"/lower "exceptional", yes?), and trying to avoid things like the police office or trained soldier (everyone else would be left bored while he mops up the zombies), or the asthmatic accountant (who'd be left bored while everyone else mops up the zombies).

Don't. Not if you want your players to enjoy the game. Remember why you chose to go with GURPS? The freedom? That goes for players more than anything. In fact, it's the #1 selling point of GURPS and you're getting ready to completely cut it out.

Let them play the characters they desire. If they want to be Rambo, let them. If they want to be Dirty Hairy, let them. They will have way more fun than if you force them, pigeon-hole them into what your idea is of what you think their characters somehow are supposed to be. That's very restricting. And, they'll want to break free.

Also, remember, in a zombie apocalypse, the bad asses often die early anyway! It's often the quiet librarians or whatever that are the heroes. So, being a police officer or National Guardsman won't make them any less susceptible to getting eaten in this genre WTSHTF.

I suggest a power level of 100 or 150-point characters with a -50 or -75-point disadvantage limit (p. 11 of Basic Set).

See Power Level, p. 487 of the Basic Set for a discussion of starting points.

When I get some time, I'll make further suggestions on your pre-made PC's.

Basically, I suggest broad, pre-made templates instead of entire characters.

Originally Posted by Kromey

I'd also like to run these stats for a basic zombie by you guys, see if this seems reasonable for this kind of low-power game. I found it on some forum somewhere, maybe even here, but no longer remember where.

Below is my fantasy zombie template which has been play-tested extensively. To make it a contemporary one, just remove its Dependency to magic and its susceptibility to spells.

Zombie

These shambling, rotting corpses limp and hobble forward in the masses -- moaning, growling, hissing and gurgling -- with one goal: kill all sentient life.

Somehow, zombies can sense sentient beings and are driven to slay them. Fortunately for the living, zombies are slow and plodding and aren't intelligent enough to use tools, weapons, or even turn a knob to open doors. Dogs are smarter than zombies.

At night and in utter darkness, zombies can see perfectly. Luckily for those they hunt, their constant moaning and growling can be easily heard.

Without fear of anything, least of all pain or destruction, zombies give little, if any, thought for their own continued existence. They mindlessly attack without defense.

In combat, zombies instantly go berserk (see Battle Rage, p. B124) and always make All-Out-Attacks. They do not suffer from stun or shock and make all rolls to remain conscious at +4 to HT. Injuries cause no penalty to Move and damage from impaling weapons grant no bonus (see Unliving, p. B380). However, zombies do suffer normally when struck in the skull (DR 2; Wounding Modifier is x4) and die instantly when reduced to -HP or below (p. B137).

Attributes: ST 11 [10]; DX 8 [-40]; IQ 3 [-140]; HT 10 [0].

Secondary Characteristics: Dmg 1d-1/1d+1; BL 24; HP 11 [0]; Will 3 [0]; Per 10 [35]; FP 10 [0]; Basic Speed 2.5 [-40]; Basic Move 2 [0].

Advantages and Perks: Dark Vision [25]; Detect (Sentient Beings; Common; Vague, -50%) [10]; Doesn't Breathe [20]; Doesn't Eat or Drink [10]; Doesn't Sleep [20]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Immunity to Metabolic Hazards [30]; Immunity (All mind control) [30]; Indomitable [15]; Injury Tolerance (No Blood, No Eyes, No Vitals, Unliving) [35]; Temperature Tolerance 10 [10]; Unaging [15]; Unfazeable [15].

Disadvantages and Quirks: Appearance (Horrific; Universal, +25%) [-30]; Bad Smell [-10]; Berserk (Battle Rage) (6) [-30]; Bestial [-15]; Cannot Learn [-30]; Cannot Speak [-15]; Dependency (Mana; common, constantly) [-50]; Disturbing Voice [-10]; Fragile (Unnatural) [-50]; Frightens Animals [-10]; Hidebound [-5]; Impulsiveness (6) [-20]; Incurious (6) [-10]; Low Empathy [-20]; No Sense of Humor [-10]; No Sense of Smell/Taste [-5]; Noisy 3 [-6]; Numb [-20]; Obsession (6) (Kill All Sentient Beings) [-30]; On the Edge (6) [-30]; Reprogrammable [-10]; Sexless [-1]; Slave Mentality [-40]; Terminally Ill [-100]; Unhealing (Total) [-30].

Features: Affected by Control Zombie, Pentagram, and Turn Zombie; Fixed IQ; No mental skills.

[Kromey]

Originally Posted by Stripe

You sound like a GURPS player! :)

I think maybe I was born to be!

Originally Posted by Stripe

Yes. We are well aware of this. The prejudice goes both ways in equal amounts.

The difference is, we're right! ;)

Is it really prejudice if you're right? Isn't it just fact at that point? ;)

Originally Posted by Stripe

Don't. Not if you want your players to enjoy the game. Remember why you chose to go with GURPS? The freedom? That goes for players more than anything. In fact, it's the #1 selling point of GURPS and you're getting ready to completely cut it out.

Let them play the characters they desire. If they want to be Rambo, let them. If they want to be Dirty Hairy, let them. They will have way more fun than if you force them, pigeon-hole them into what your idea is of what you think their characters somehow are supposed to be. That's very restricting. And, they'll want to break free.

That's totally fair. But how do you reconcile this with bringing pre-generated characters to the table so that all the players have to do is start rolling the dice? Don't I have to bring full characters to the table?

I mean, I fully intend to give them the freedom to be who they want to be when-and-if we play an actual campaign using GURPS. But a simple blackboxed one-shot requires that I bring in fully-made characters, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Stripe

I suggest a power level of 100 or 150-point characters with a -50 or -75-point disadvantage limit (p. 11 of Basic Set).

See Power Level, p. 487 of the Basic Set for a discussion of starting points.

Part of the reason for the lower points limit was to make it a little easier on me to build all these characters beforehand. But the bigger reason is that, at least according to GURPS Lite, 25-50 is "average", and 50-100 is your star athletes and such. Which seems like where I'd want to put your run-of-the-mill survivor -- at least in the early days -- of a zombie apocalypse.

Originally Posted by Stripe

Below is my fantasy zombie template which has been play-tested extensively. To make it a contemporary one, just remove its Dependency to magic and its susceptibility to spells.

[snip pure awesomeness]

That awesome, and pretty much exactly where I wanted to go with my zombies, I think! I'll have to go over it in more detail when I have the books and can actually figure out what half this stuff even means, but thanks!

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

I think it would be a mistake to convert powers directly to GURPS. IIRC, many powers do things like "grant an extra healing surge" or "slide enemy three space".

Sorry, I wasn't clear -- I meant translate over the concept of powers, not a direct translation of the powers themselves. Because, you're right, easily 75% of that stuff just wouldn't translate at all!

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Sigh. I'm afraid it's not cheap switching game systems.

True enough. But the thing is that we're not switching, at least not yet. We're just giving GURPS a test drive. GURPS Lite (which I have downloaded, yup) doesn't feel like quite enough from a GM's perspective, which is why I've already bought the Basic Set -- sinking $50 already into what very well could turn out to be a single one-shot session!

If, however, my group does express an interest in actually playing a full campaign using GURPS, then I have no problem buying more books -- money well spent, as far as I'm concerned. It's just the thought of sinking even more money into something we may never touch again that makes me shy away from buying e.g. Horror right now.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Kromey

That's totally fair. But how do you reconcile this with bringing pre-generated characters to the table so that all the players have to do is start rolling the dice? Don't I have to bring full characters to the table?

Well before running your game, talk to the players about what kind of characters they'd like to play (mechanic, kung-fu master, hobo with a shotgun, epic accountant, etc.), then build those characters. They get characters without having to get their hands dirty with the rules, but they also get what they want.

Originally Posted by Kromey

But the bigger reason is that, at least according to GURPS Lite, 25-50 is "average", and 50-100 is your star athletes and such. Which seems like where I'd want to put your run-of-the-mill survivor -- at least in the early days -- of a zombie apocalypse.

The problem with running "average" people in adventure scenarios is that adventures are difficult and dangerous, and average people caught up in them tend to fail and die. That's realistic, but it may not be the kind of fun you're after. If you want all sneaking and hiding all the time, average people are the ticket. If you want to see some zombie-splattering action, crank up the points. Also, consider metagame-ish advantages like Luck and Common Sense, which allow PCs to be apparently average but a little harder to kill.

[Stripe]

Here is my fantasy zombie converted into a Night of the Living Dead-type zombie in monster format. I removed its ability to sense sentient beings, its Dependency to magic, its Immunity to mind control spells, its susceptibility to magic, and the disadvantages Reprogrammable and Slave Mentality. Those last two traits were for creating necromantic servitors.

Remember, with an All-Out-Attack (Determined), they are rolling to attack at +4, or 12. That's not a hard roll to make. They can take a fair amount of damage, too, and not much fazes them or slows them down until they're dead -- really dead.

I did this quickly so there may be errors/omissions.

Zombie

These shambling, rotting corpses limp and hobble forward in the masses -- moaning, growling, hissing and gurgling -- with one goal: kill all sentient life.

For some reason, zombies are driven to slay sentient beings. Fortunately for the living, zombies are slow and plodding and aren't intelligent enough to use tools, weapons, or even turn a knob to open doors. Dogs are smarter than zombies.

At night and in utter darkness, zombies can see perfectly. Luckily for those they hunt, their constant moaning and growling can be easily heard.

Without fear of anything, least of all pain or destruction, zombies give little, if any, thought for their own continued existence. They mindlessly attack without defense.

In combat, zombies instantly go berserk (see Battle Rage, p. B124) and always make All-Out-Attacks. They do not suffer from stun or shock and make all rolls to remain conscious at +4 to HT. Injuries cause no penalty to Move and damage from impaling weapons grant no wounding bonus (see Unliving, p. B380). However, zombies do suffer normally when struck in the skull (DR 2; Wounding Modifier is x4) and die instantly when reduced to -HP or below (p. B137).

ST: 11 	     HP: 11 	Speed: 2.5
DX: 8	     Will: 3 	Move: 2
IQ: 3        Per: 10
HT: 10 	     FP: 10 	SM: 0
Dodge: 5     Parry: 7	DR: 0

Claw (8): 1d-2 cr
Bite (8): 1d-2 cr

Traits: Appearance (Horrific; Universal, +25%); Bad Smell; Berserk (Battle Rage) (6); Bestial; Cannot Learn; Cannot Speak; Dark Vision; Detect (Sentient Beings; Common; Vague); Disturbing Voice; Doesn't Breathe; Doesn't Eat or Drink; Doesn't Sleep; Fragile (Unnatural); Frightens Animals; Hidebound; High Pain Threshold; Immunity to Metabolic Hazards; Impulsiveness (6); Incurious (6); Indomitable; Injury Tolerance (No Blood, Low Empathy; No Eyes, No Vitals, Unliving); No Sense of Humor; No Sense of Smell/Taste; Noisy 3; Numb; Obsession (6) (Kill All Sentient Beings); On the Edge (6); Sexless; Slave Mentality; Temperature Tolerance 10; Terminally Ill; Unaging; Unfazeable; Unhealing (Total).

Skills: None.

Features: Fixed IQ; No mental skills.

Originally Posted by Kromey

But a simple blackboxed one-shot requires that I bring in fully-made characters, doesn't it?

No.

It requires that you either have templates -- that is, partial character sheets -- or such a deep mastery of the rules set that you can create characters on the fly in minutes from player description. You'll want to take the former option. ;)

Below are some "templates." Note that while these are in basically canonical style for (partial) character sheets, they aren't the canonical definition of template used in the Basic Set. I'm just describing these partial character sheets as templates. They may be hard to read for someone not familiar with GURPS, but they take up little space.

Strangely, GURPS character sheets list Thrust/Swing damage but weapons list Swing/Thrust damage...

First are attribute templates, then trait packages, then skill packages:

John Doe
0 Points

Completely average stats. Average build and intelligence. I'd consider giving Jane Doe ST 9 [-10] or even ST 8 [-20] if she's petite.

Nerdy characters such as librarians or computer hackers almost certainly don't need any stats lowered except maybe ST -- just raise IQ and put points into mental skills while take social disadvantages (of which there are many).

Lowering DX or HT below 10 is a dramatic step often better represented with traits such as Klutz (p. B141), Lame (p. B141) or Unfit (p. B160).

For character concepts that rely on stealth, speed and agility, raise DX, possibly as high as 13. Raising DX will raise Basic Speed and Move.

Attributes (0): ST 10 [0]; DX 10 [0]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 10 [0].
Secondary Characteristics (0): Dmg 1d-2/1d; BL 20; HP 10 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 12 [0]; Basic Speed 5 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0].
Advantages and Perks (0): None.
Disadvantages and Quirks (0): None.


Athletic Build
45 Points

Good for anyone who's both strong and fit -- soldiers, cops, firefighters, etc. Average intelligence.

Attributes (40): ST 11 [10]; DX 11 [20]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 11 [10].
Secondary Characteristics (0): Dmg 1d-1/1d+1; BL 24; HP 11 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 11 [0]; Basic Speed 5.5 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0].
Advantages and Perks (5): Fit [5].
Disadvantages and Quirks (0): None.


Very Athletic Build
85 Points

Good for anyone who's quick, agile, well-built, strong and fit -- soldiers, cops, firefighters, etc. Average intelligence.

Raise ST to 13 for 10 more points for a truly heroic physique. Raising ST to 13 will raise Dmg to 1d/2d-1; HP to 13 and BL to 34.

Attributes (80): ST 12 [20]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 12 [20].
Secondary Characteristics (0): Dmg 1d-1/1d+2; BL 29; HP 12 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 12 [0]; Basic Speed 6 [0]; Basic Move 6 [0].
Advantages and Perks (5): Fit [5].
Disadvantages and Quirks (0): None.


Big Guy/Strongman
40 Points

Good for anyone who's not in good shape but is big and strong -- semi truck drivers, road crew workers, bar bouncers, etc.

Raise ST to 15 for a truly hulking behemoth, likely both very large and quite muscular. Raising ST to 15 will cost 10 points and raise Dmg to 1d+1/2d+1; HP to 15 and BL to 45.

GMs should take great care in allowing players to make a stupid brute by taking less than IQ 10. Changing IQ effects every facet of intelligence. Often, creating a simple-minded imbecile is better done by taking mental Disadvantages such as Clueless [-10] (p. B126), Confused [-10] (p. B129), Gullibility [-10] (p. B137), Hidebound [-5] (p. B138), Impulsiveness [-10] (p.B139), Incurious [-5] (p. B140), Indecisive [-10] (p. B140), and Oblivious [-5] (p. B146).

Attributes (0): ST 14 [40]; DX 10 [0]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 10 [0].
Secondary Characteristics (0): Dmg 1d/2d; BL 39; HP 14 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 10 [0]; Basic Speed 5 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0].
Advantages and Perks (0): None.
Disadvantages and Quirks (0): None.


I ran out of time. I might come back and edit this to add more, but my basic suggestion for skills is to create a few packages for common character types.

If you're running this black-box style, you don't even need to record character points. Just set most primary skills at 14-15 and secondary, background skills at 12.

Or, don't even record the skills or traits. Just tell the players what to roll against. You think cop PC has a 14 in Brawling? Fine. Tell the player to roll against 14 when throwing a punch. Jot it down in your notes for continuity.

Also, for quick and simple gun stats, see this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=80515

[dcarson]

To show that it does do stuff other than all combat you should give each character at least one skill that is useful but not combat. The fireman and the taxi driver have already had good ideas. The businessman could have either something from his business like if in construction he still knows how to run machinery from summers in college when his dad had him learn the business from the ground up or a hobby like sailing so he can get them safely out from the harbor. The martial art type might be athletic in general and can climb into upper floor windows for a building that the ground is ocked and has bars on the windows. Etc.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

(Did anyone mention that taxi drivers are likely to be the best suited for vehicular zombicide?)

Some of us even have a ram bar, if the company leaves them on when they buy the Crown Vics from the cops! An EMT in a 6000# ambulance is probably even better-suited to vehicular zombicide, though...

Originally Posted by Stripe

Injury Tolerance (No Blood, Low Empathy; No Eyes, No Vitals, Unliving)

They were immune to the worst form of injury of them all... a broken heart...