[Mass Combat] Motorcycle troops?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

I don't recall MC addressing the various motorcycle troops, such as the German motoinfantry, the Nod Recon/Attack Bikes, or the Dark Eldar bikes, or the StarCraft Vultures. They seem to have Motorized mobility, somewhat increased offensive capability, but also a low WT and many other traits more infantry-like traits. Now, maybe I'm missing them somewhere - IDHMBWM. Anyone got a clearer picture of unit stats than I do?

Thanks in advance!

[sir_pudding]

Historically it was really a failed experiment (except as messengers; which is probably below the resolution of Mass Combat). If you want them to work as advertised, you can probably just treat them like Motorized Inf for mobility and light infantry otherwise.

[vierasmarius]

That sounds like the Motor Recon unit to me - the descriptions says a 4x4 utility vehicle, but it could easily be a few motorcycles with sidecars or something similar.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

That sounds like the Motor Recon unit to me - the descriptions says a 4x4 utility vehicle, but it could easily be a few motorcycles with sidecars or something similar.

Yeah, they were supposed to fill the same role that Motor Recon units are supposed to.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yeah, they were supposed to fill the same role that Motor Recon units are supposed to.

Historically, many of the motorcycle infantry units were intended and/or used for recon, but not all of them. Some were an alternative to truck-mounted motorized infantry. Building a dozen of motorcycles with sidecars was cheaper than building a truck, and the motorcycles also were better off in difficult terrain.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Historically it was really a failed experiment (except as messengers; which is probably below the resolution of Mass Combat).

What made them so bad? Word of mouth from WWII vetrans seems to be that motorcycled enemies were treated seriously. However, whenever I try to google motoinfantry, I generally get pointed towards pages with infantry riding an APC/IFV/etc.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If you want them to work as advertised, you can probably just treat them like Motorized Inf for mobility and light infantry otherwise.

Well, they certainly work in some role in fantastic settings such as WH40K (except that those are more properly hoverbikes, but it's not like those are 100% interchangeable with realistic history of warfare).

But yeah, I'm exploring the idea, and wondering how plausible it is.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, they certainly work in some role in fantastic settings such as WH40K (except that those are more properly hoverbikes, but it's not like those are 100% interchangeable with realistic history of warfare).

But yeah, I'm exploring the idea, and wondering how plausible it is.

Treating 'attack bike' groups as Motor Recon elements seems entirely reasonable. There might be 2 bikes to the standard element, since each cycle is smaller, lighter-armed and probably smaller-crewed than a 4-wheeled utility vehicle. And it gives them all the right classes, I'd say. Add Neutralize Armor for bikes with anti-tank armament like the classic Brotherhood of Nod vehicle.

[Anders]

What you want is an Army Vespa!

Main advantage - they're very cheap...

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

What you want is an Army Vespa!

Main advantage - they're very cheap...

I keep trying to find one of these for running around truck shows (especially on really hot days). Know of any for sale (read: not sitting in a museum someplace)?

[Michele]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

What made them so bad?

Let me name just one factor. Consider the flexibility of trucks vs. motorcycles with regard to redeployment and manpower needed. Both could be used as battle taxis, moving the infantry to the edge of the battleground . Both vehicles were, however, basically unsuitable to ride them into battle, they were not APCs. Both were vulnerable and valuable.

In other words, ideally you exploited their speed to send infantry to the battlefield quickly; but you also did not want them exposed to enemy fire if that could be helped at all.

But with a heavy, large truck, 1 man could drive 30 men to the immediate rear area of the battlefield. After unloading the infantrymen and letting them move forward on foot, that one driver could move the truck back to relatively safer areas. 29 men is a platoon's worth of infantry.

Now suppose you replace the truck with 15 motorcycles with sidecar. What now? You can:

a) Copy the truck. This means you need 15 men to drive the motorcycles back and your infantry platoon's strength is halved. Bad idea.
b) Leave the motorcycles parked and move the 30 men forward. The motorcycles are not secure. If an artillery barrage, or strafing aircraft, or marauding patrol comes by, there will be nobody to move them to safety or to defend them. Hell, even if a _friendly_ motorcycle unit goes by, and they happen to lack spare parts... bad idea, too.
c) Compromise, which is what was often done. Leave, say, 6 men behind to protect the motorcycles. Your platoon is 20% understrength, however.
d) Rely on the upper echelon. Leave the motorcycles at the company's CP, in other words. Of course, if anything goes wrong, the scanty CP personnel will either be able to carry on with its own specific duties, or to (badly) look after the motorcycles.

This hampered WWII cavalry units, too. The Polish cavalry had a practice of leaving behind one handler for every 3-4 horses. Cavalry units were already smaller in manpower than a corresponding infantry unit, you can guess this didn't help them.

Of course this is not a problem if you assume that motorcycle infantry rode their motorbikes into battle. But that was not the case, unless they were ambushed, or on the relatively rare occasions when the enemy's situation could be described with that wonderful adjective, "fluid". They didn't ride their vehicles into a prepared enemy line or straight at a formed, effective enemy mobile formation.