[MH] Using RPM for lower-powered genres

[tg_ambro]

In the near future (after my DF and MH campaigns I'm working on) I intend to run a Serious Fantasy campaign.

By utilizing Fantasy, Horror , Low-Tech and Martial Arts, I hope to craft an interesting and fun world to play in for all sorts of characters. When it comes to wizards and the magic system used, I want to go with RPM from MH, because it has an authentic and mystical feel that differs from the tactical variety found in Magic.

Today, while speaking with one of my players (who wants to play a witch), I mentioned some of my plans for this campaign, and he said it didn't sound like fun because RPM wouldn't work very well on a lower point budget (something like 200 cps).

I disagree, but realize that I'm far too inexperienced with RPM for my opinion ito be completely informed. So, my question to the more knowledgable:

Can a reasonably powerful wizard be built on 200 points (50-75 points in disads) using RPM? Yes? No? With some conditions?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

The first difficulty I can see is being able to accumulate enough energy to support greater effects before the failure/crit failure rate becomes painful.

Magery is useful to counter this, to a limited degree, but at 10-points for every 3 energy (after the initial 15-points for the initial 3 energy) ... High Magery is also a requirement with the cap for Ritual Path skills being (12+Magery). In addition, Ritual Adept is 40-points and necessary for anything other than an off-screen/downtime caster. (The Non-Adepts and Magic sidebox on MH pg 36 should explain why.)

Magery 3 [35], Ritual Adept [40], Thaumatology (IQ/VH) 15-, 9 Ritual Path (IQ/VH) skills at 15- ...

There went a huge chunk of those 200 points.

Also depends on what you mean by reasonably powerful.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Magery 3 [35], Ritual Adept [40], Thaumatology (IQ/VH) 15-, 9 Ritual Path (IQ/VH) skills at 15- ...

Magery can take Limitations, and although I don't seem to recall any RAW-legal Limitations on Ritual Adept, it should be possible to come up with some that any non-too-incompetent GM would accept.

Also with 12+Magery being a hard cap, it's not clear to me that high IQ is particularly useful.

And contrast it with the standard GURPS Magic adventurer mage, with Magery 3 and IQ 4 costing a total of 115 CPs. That's a large chunk too. Add in having to pay 1 CP each for 20 spells, and 5 more VH spells costing 2 CPs each, and we're talking 145 CPs. The chunk just got even huger.

[Luke Bunyip]

This is an excellent question. I have flagged playing a one-off MH game with one of my old gaming buddies. Given that we had always played 150pt characters, he was gobsmacked with the idea of having 400pts to play with. Almost to the point in not wanting to being involved in the game.

And it got me thinking of what sort of campaign or game I could run at a lower point score (which is sort of pre-empting the release of MH4, but hey....). And one of the limitations I ran into was yup, the Sage and the Witch.

[PK]

You can definitely build a "useful" caster on 200 points -- MH4 will have a template that does just that. (In fact, I've built 100-point casters who were able to pull off some pretty impressive effects . . . using a grimoire, from a sacred space, with RItual Mastery, and several friends sacrificing FP to help.) But what's really hard to do is to build a useful adept. The Ritual Adept advantage, at 40 points, eats up a pretty good chunk of anyone's point budget.

But there's no reason you can't play a non-adept caster. For fast spells, use charms. Or pick some spells you like and grab a grimoire and Ritual Mastery for each -- it's easy to get a +5 bonus that way, which negates the time penalty. Then you still have the option of total versatility using slower spells. About the only thing that's really expensive is if you want to be versatile and fast . . . but yeah, that should be expensive! That's the idea.

PS: Luke, you may want to ease your friend into MH using MH4: Sidekicks to build heroes. Then, when everyone's comfortable, bump 'em all up to 400 points in a "flash-forward"!

[PK]

Here's a sample caster built on 195 points with no disads. That way, if you're running 200 with -50 in disads and -5 in quirks, you still have a whole 60 points to spend on stuff that isn't magic, or you could add RItual Adept and have just 20 points left. (I'm assuming this isn't for a standard MH game, so there's no motivational lens, Know Thy Enemy stuff, etc.; if this is for an MH game, this character will need some revising! In particular the sidekick template I mentioned has better HT, some minor combat ability to stay alive, etc.)

ST 10; DX 10; IQ 14 [80]; HT 10. (Total 80.)

Magery 3 [35]; Ritual Mastery x6 [6]; Signature Gear (Grimoire Collection; +5 to six different rituals) [1]; Signature Gear (Good Workspace Kit; +1 to charms) [1]. (Total 43.)

Thaumatology (VH) IQ+1 [12]-15. Choose two Paths at (VH) IQ+1 [12]-15, two at (VH) IQ [8]-14, and the remaining five Paths at (VH) IQ-1 [4]-13. (Total 72.)

There. It's up to you if you want to overlap the Ritual Master and Grimoire bonuses; if so, that's +7 to his six favorite spells, which (assuming they're part of his best Paths) means he can cast in adept time and without preparing the area at only -3 to skill. And his skill levels are otherwise good enough to be quite versatile if he's able to take his time on a spell.

If he puts some of his extra points into Hidden Lore (Sacred Places), he can use the rules in MH2 to locate a place of magical potency. If he can get a +2 bonus (reasonable) that way, he's at a net +3 on all rolls to make charms; if he's making charms for his signature spells, that's an effective skill of up to 25 (!), which translates to a lot of extra energy for improved range, area, etc.

And if you add the RItual Adept advantage with your leftover points, you've got no penalties for time, preparing the area, etc. So you have amazing effective skill with your "go-to" spells, and when you need to improvise, you have a good, adequate, or possible chance of pulling it off -- depending on what Paths are involved and how much energy it takes.

[SCAR]

Stripping down the Witch template as much as possible, hopefully without losing too much Magic or Monster Hunter -

Drop Attributes to ST10, DX10, IQ14 and HT10, as well as dropping extra points spent on Secondary Characterstics - saves [118] points.
Advantages: Keep Ritual Adept and the Motivational Lens, Drop Magery to 3 and drop all other advanatges = saves [95] points.
Disadvantages: Keep the full [-55] (plus [-15] from motivational lens)
Skills (Secondary): Drop 2 of the [4 point] Combat Skills - saves [8] points.

Total Saving [221 points] giving an [179] point template, which I'm sure could be squeezed down to 150 - but that would leave very little else on the template but the Adept/Magery. Certainly 200 points looks to be doable.

The template still has all of the Magical Paths, at a slightly reduced level of 15, due to lower IQ and Magery, but still with Ritual Adept!
Note: I don't know if Magery 3 or Path Skill 15 is too crippling, I haven't taken in the full implications of the RPM in use.

Edit: I didn't spot PK's sample caster until after I'd posted - I guess Magery 3 and Path 15 is OK, definitely a bit more point flexibility without Ritual Adept.

[Enoch]

A few changes that I thought of to help with this very issue:

• Ritual Adept advantage with Pact limitations.
• Spirit Assisted magic that either provides certain levels of adept or gathers magic/acts as a e-reserve\
• Fetish ritual to provide energy.
• Ley-lines
• Energy providing materials
• Familiar e-reserve
• Focus items that lower energy costs
• Not sure I worked this one through my head enough, but Threshold based magic as an emergency reserve

Most of these are campaign rulings and not character traits. Not sure of the normal energy to ritual energy conversion, either 2 or 5.

-Joshua

[tg_ambro]

I see that an effective RPM wizard can be built, and looks to be quite scary with his combination of focused power as well as broad power. I'm sure my player will be quite pleased to know that he's wrong . . . insofar as people enjoy being wrong. :)

An interesting note: I had discounted how important and useful grimoires and Sacred Places are! In my campaign I had envisioned a sort of "mage's guild", and I want association with them to come with some perks, I think having access to a +2, or +3 Sacred Place would be nice.

[PK]

Originally Posted by tg_ambro

An interesting note: I had discounted how important and useful grimoires and Sacred Places are!

The reason RPM stuff is so expensive is that versatility, which is why when you limit yourself to just a single ritual, you can get some impressive bonuses. Grimoires are a must-have for any witch who has a selection of related go-to spells. Ritual Mastery doesn't provide quite the same oomph for the cost, but it also lacks all of the grimoire's drawbacks (extra casting time, must lug a heavy book around, obvious casting).

You could do worse than to print the RPM chapter and highlight everything that gives you a bonus. You might be surprised at how quickly they all add up! :)

In my campaign I had envisioned a sort of "mage's guild", and I want association with them to come with some perks, I think having access to a +2, or +3 Sacred Place would be nice.

If there's a mage's guild, then a sacred place should be a given. After all, a place becomes magically potent by just having spells cast there frequently! So if the guild has been established for the past century, then it's a +3 sacred place by definition!

Also, don't discount the benefit of assisted casting! Mana reserve energy is cheap and easy to refill, so any nearby casters should be willing to chip in theirs. Sure, there's the -1 per extra caster, but the sacred place bonus should help offset that. If you have a +3 sacred place, you can have a four-person casting at no net penalty; if everyone has Magery 3, that's 36 points of energy without a single skill roll needed -- and if that's enough to work your spell, you only need to succeed at a single roll to cast it. If not, the fact that all four casters can make two energy accumulation rolls before suffering any penalties means a lot of potential extra power.