[MH] Ritual Path Magic - how many paths to a ritual?

[mlangsdorf]

I'm trying to figure out how an anti-aging spell would work for RPM. Specifically, when do you have to use multiple effects?

A spell to prevent aging could be treated as:

1. A Crossroads Greater Transform effect (significantly altering the time of the living subject, which is always a greater affect)
2. A Crossroads Greater Restore effect (healing the passage of time of the living subject, which is always a greater affect)
3. A Crossroads Strengthen effect (protecting the a living subject from the effects of time, targeting the living is always a greater affect)
4. A Lesser Transform, Restore, or Strength effect for Body (altering, healing, or protecting the living in a subtle way)
5. A Greater Crossroads effect and a Lesser Body effect
6. A Lesser Crossroad effect and a Lesser body effect, with the introduction of the Path of Body increasing the base energy cost but simplifying the Crossroads effect to lesser

It looks to me that option #5 is the most correct reading of the rules, but it seems odd that a Greater Crossroads effect that is Greater specifically because it targets a being also has have a Body element. That would seem to imply that to damage someone with lightning I'd have to use a Body effect and an Energy effect, which looks like it would get expensive in a hurry.

The ghost-banishing example on p 34 seems to imply that you only need 1 path that applies to the target, but I'm not sure if that's entirely applicable since you're destroying the connection and the ghost is withering, just like destroying the rope that summon is hanging from with Path of Matter will likely cause them to die from gravity, and the caster doesn't have to invoke Path of Matter or Path of Energy for that.

Any thoughts?

[Langy]

I'd go with both a Crossroads and a Body effect, and at least one of them, possibly both, should be Greater. De-aging magic is generally really difficult, so I don't think a Greater Crossroads + Greater Body effect would be stretching anything. And no, you don't need a Body effect to damage someone with lightning.

[Exxar]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

That would seem to imply that to damage someone with lightning I'd have to use a Body effect and an Energy effect, which looks like it would get expensive in a hurry.

I'd require this only for conjuring lightning within the target's body (which wouldn't allow an active defense, for example). As long as you create a bolt of lightning and hurl it at the target, it's just an Energy effect.

As for an anti-aging ritual, I'd go with a Greater Transform Crossroads (significantly alter the passage of time for the subject) and Greater Transform Body (significantly alter the natural processes of the body). Halting aging should be one of the hardest things to do with magic, so two Greater Transform effects are perfectly fine, even though it could be argued that lower-tier effects could be used.

[PK]

When in doubt, go with Greater. As a rule, it should be obvious when a Lesser effect is called for; if it isn't obvious, you're probably dealing with Greater. And a person ceasing to age? Not very believable or natural.

Now, I can see some players arguing, "What if the ritual is only for a month? Not aging for a month is hardly unbelievable -- no one could even tell." While that's right, it's also a little disingenuous, because you know anyone who casts such a ritual is going to go back and inexpensively prolong the duration (Post-Casting, p. 37) on a regular basis. I mean, that's how these spells work, whether you cast one for a month or for a century; you work a crazy-powerful ritual once, then keep it alive with much easier "refresher castings" in the future. So "believability based on casting duration" is a bit of a red herring.

(Not that anyone here was arguing the above -- just figured I'd address that one ahead of time.)

[mlangsdorf]

Thanks, Rev. That answers the Greater/Lesser question, and provides a very useful guideline for duration based castings.

It doesn't really address the Time vs Body vs Time & Body question. Especially since it's a Greater effect by default, I can easily see a player say its just a Greater Body Restore effect to heal the damage caused by aging (or at worst an Alter effect). Alternately, a Greater Time effect specifically targets beings, so why do I need another Body path element?

[zoncxs]

restore states to heal or undo a transformation. you can't heal aging, you can undo it but its not a transformation. now transform says to significantly alter subject, so thats what you would need to use to change the age of someone.

how about greater transform crossroads + greater transform body, and use duration to determine how much aging is reversed. so:

(8 + 8 + 11(for 1 month of unaging)) * 5 = 135

for turning a 60yo into a 20yo:

(8 + 8 + 61) * 5 = 385

OR

greater transform body giving them the unaging advantage for 1 month (or 40yrs):

(8 + 15 + 11) * 3 = 102

(8 + 15 + 61) * 3 = 252

you can use both! turn a 60yo into a 20yo and make it so that they don't age for 40 years:

((8 + 8 + 61) + (8 + 15 + 61) * 7 = 1127!

[Exxar]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Now, I can see some players arguing, "What if the ritual is only for a month? Not aging for a month is hardly unbelievable -- no one could even tell."

I'd say "okay" and then the player would wonder why his ritual doesn't work the next time he casts it within a year :D

Yes, it's perfectly believable not to age for a month once per year hehee.