The Spell Pull

[Hippiechild]

Just a quick question. An instance came up in our game tonight in which our GM used the spell Pull. My mage, seeing this as but an irritation, let the pull affect him, thinking that he could still cast either of his missile spells (ice Sphere or Spider silk)out of the Pull area. This is where the conundrum occurred. We got into a heated debate on the effects of Pull on a Missile Spell. In our (the other players opinion) we felt that because the missile is but a magical manifestation of a substance it was unnaffescted by the spell. The GM thought differently, believeing that the spell affects missile spells also. As a matter of opinion, who is right?

[sir_pudding]

The GM. It's his game setting, he gets to define how magic works there.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by GURPS Campaigns p 486

The GM is the final authority. Rules are guidelines . . . the designers’ opinion about how things ought to go. But as long as the GM is fair and consistent, he can change any number, any cost, any rule. His word is law!

In case anyone needed a page number and a quote.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The GM. It's his game setting, he gets to define how magic works there.

It is the GM's duty to protect against assumption clashes. That's one reason why one must have the power of prediction in order to be a GM.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

It is the GM's duty to protect against assumption clashes. That's one reason why one must have the power of prediction in order to be a GM.

"The power of prediction" makes it sound like you expect a GM to have precognition or something.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

"The power of prediction" makes it sound like you expect a GM to have precognition or something.

I do hold GMs to extremely high standards.

That said, players should try to check their assumptions with the GM, before acting. People on both sides of the GM screen have duties.

[benz72]

Just use sunbolt next time

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I do hold GMs to extremely high standards.

He does!

That said, it doesn't take psychic power for the GM to note the player is holding a missile spell ready to throw, and comment "You know, that's going to get Pulled along with everything else right?"

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

That said, players should try to check their assumptions with the GM, before acting. People on both sides of the GM screen have duties.

This also. While I understand the fun in springing things on people (mostly for comedy value, after all you shouldn't explain the joke) most of the time hiding your intentions from the GM is done compulsively, because the player is afraid the GM will 'spoil his fun' by saying NO. I don't understand this attitude, because this doesn't stop the GM from saying NO when it happens, and now you've wasted a few turns of preparation and so have a bigger, angrier argument when the NO happens.

If you suspect the GM is going to say NO, it's probably because your "inner team player" is whispering in your ear that your plan is a little sketchy; you should listen to them. Just ASK the GM! He may say yes, and voilla, no problems! Or he may say No, which will save you a lot of scheming effort and wasted turns :)

The other fear is that the GM will give his NPCs psychic foreknowledge of your plan and ruin it that way. Fear of metagaming is something entirely outside the rules; if you're worried about that, you may want to have a talk with your GM in general.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Hippiechild

Just a quick question. An instance came up in our game tonight in which our GM used the spell Pull. My mage, seeing this as but an irritation, let the pull affect him, thinking that he could still cast either of his missile spells (ice Sphere or Spider silk)out of the Pull area. This is where the conundrum occurred. We got into a heated debate on the effects of Pull on a Missile Spell. In our (the other players opinion) we felt that because the missile is but a magical manifestation of a substance it was unnaffescted by the spell. The GM thought differently, believeing that the spell affects missile spells also. As a matter of opinion, who is right?

That sort of thing is a GM's call. But if it was my game and a player tried it, I would have made the same call. It's official that magic missiles survive being shot into no mana areas and that makes them physical objects created and propelled by magic but physical none the less and would be thrown off course as much as arrows would be.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That sort of thing is a GM's call. But if it was my game and a player tried it, I would have made the same call. It's official that magic missiles survive being shot into no mana areas and that makes them physical objects created and propelled by magic but physical none the less and would be thrown off course as much as arrows would be.

If I was the GM I would probably not have chosen for Pull to be cast by my NPC and warned a PC off of buying it (or Repel). The reason is that it's a badly written spell and dificult to referee.

The specific dificulty in thsi case is not if physical missiles are affected (they are) but what the effect of imposing a 1 yard/second force upon the missiles _is_?

If the PC was at the center of the Pull effect and he was firing a gun directly out we could easilly write-off they whole thing as negligable. The missile is in range of the spell for far less than 1 second and the effect is only to slow it to a trivial degree.

The slower the missile the more the effect but as long as the spell is only pulling along the axis of flight the effect is still only to slow it down somewhat.

The speed of a Missile Spell is probalby equal to its' Max Range at a minimum so I would at most take 1 yard off that Max Range in this axial siituation.

It's when you fire physical missiles and Missile Spells _across_ the area of effect of the Pull that things get hairy. There should be _some_ lateral pull disrupting accuracy to _some_ extent, but exactly how much becomes complicated.

For a thrown rock the deflection should be a significant fraction of the 1 yard/sec but if flight time through the Pull zone is only 1/10th of a second you only get 3.6 inches of deflection. For a bullet you probalby get almost nothing significant at tactical ranges but a sniper's bullet passing through the zone could still be deflected by.....well, call it "enough".

Anyway, making me figure out things like thsi is why you can't cast Pull in my games.

The OP didn't say _what_ the effect of the Pull was on his Missile spells. "Prevents Casting" would have still been within the GM's arbitrary authority but I do not think it would have actually been "right".