Bringing a gun to bear.

[Comedian]

I don't have military experience, but I do have dynamic entry training and 1 yard per second sounds right. I've always allowed a "step and wait" maneuver in my games to replicate the "groucho" walk I was taught. 2 yards a second is certainly feasible for a particularly fast crew, but 3 yards a second is a bit too much in my opinion.

Side Note: Totally stoked for Tactical Shooting. I'm running what will hopefully be the start of a short Victorian Sci-Fi campaign this weekend and I'm hoping I can get the rules in time to absorb them and integrate them into the game.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

As a total non-grunt reference, here's my bias:

Move 1: up to 2mph. This is a casual to standard walking pace. I have no issues AT ALL with watching an area and engaging in sighted shooting. I'd probably even consider an Aim maneuver with the right optics.

Move 2: 2-4mph. This is getting into the brisk walk territory. Penalized Per, hard to watch for enemies and keep your feet in bad terrain perhaps. Still, I've seen videos of teams moving at a pretty good clip with weapons at the ready, so I believe that it can be done.

Moving with your weapons at the ready doesn't correspond to "shooting and perceiving as well as you would normally" though. Hell, I can run with my weapon at the ready, I'm just not going to hit anything I'm trying to shoot.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Move 3: 4-6mph. For me, at 5'8" on a good day, I am absolutely FORCED to start trotting somewhere north of about 4.2mph, and at that point I shift to the full move 3 (6mph, or a 10min mile). I actually have a very hard time moving at 5mph. It's too fast for me to walk, but too slow for me to comfortably run/jog without bouncing a LOT.

That may be me and my short legs, though. But Move 3 is pretty quick for perception, reaction, etc. Since it's larger than 1/2 Move for most people, esp people wearing 60lbs of gear, steeper penalties at this point and higher are probably fine, or just disallow it without special skills or Perks.

I'm the same (5'9"). Though I've always had enough meat on me that a fair amount of weight didn't really slow me down much. Weight lifting in high school plus toting a radio all the time in the Corps. Actually one of my tricks was to wear steel toes in garrison but wear jungle boots on humps. Your feet feel so much lighter it's a nice psychological crutch.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

World class "race walkers" who are walking, not trotting or running, achieve mile paces of 7-8min per mile, or Move 3.5 to 4.

So Move 3 MIGHT be possible, but I'd have an easier time believing Move 2, and no problem at all with Move 1.

I'm not arguing that moving that fast while still walking isn't possible. I'm saying it doesn't correspond to "unhindered perceiving and shooting."

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I'm not arguing that moving that fast while still walking isn't possible. I'm saying it doesn't correspond to "unhindered perceiving and shooting."

I was trained to walk slooowwww on foot patrols, FWIW.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I don't have a whole lot of experience on foot, but FWIW this seems right to me too. 1 yd/sec about right, 2-3 yd/sec is too quick to really scan everything you need to be scanning.

You're not scanning everything, you're scanning what you need to be scanning, which is a smaller arc section of area while relying on the rest of your platoon to scan the areas you're not.

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And yeah it happens that last guy may have to be running sideways or even backwards.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

You MIGHT do 3 if you're moving at a hustle, but then you WILL be impaired in trying to watch everything.

Which is where the bulk penalty and the Committed Attack penalty to defense come in, I'd also give a -2 to Per, seems about right to me.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I was trained to walk slooowwww on foot patrols, FWIW.

That one depends on what the patrol is for, if you have a destination and need to get there before people see you coming and leave, you hustle.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

That one depends on what the patrol is for, if you have a destination and need to get there before people see you coming and leave, you hustle.

That's not a patrol, then. That's movement to contact or something else.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's not a patrol, then. That's movement to contact or something else.

Could be a patrol having to move quickly through an area, or something else, sure, but it's still done moving at 2-3 yards per second while covering a target area with reasonable defensive safety.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Could be a patrol having to move quickly through an area, or something else, sure, but it's still done moving at 2-3 yards per second while covering a target area with reasonable defensive safety.

That's not the preferred way to cross a danger zone. I suppose it could happen that way, but I wouldn't call that patrol movement.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I was trained to walk slooowwww on foot patrols, FWIW.

Me too.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

You're not scanning everything, you're scanning what you need to be scanning, which is a smaller arc section of area while relying on the rest of your platoon to scan the areas you're not.

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And yeah it happens that last guy may have to be running sideways or even backwards.

I am in fact familiar with how a patrol works (though we did double column with patrol leader and radioman in the middle near the front, usually). I realize you don't need 360 degree vision to do a patrol. You're still not anywhere near as effective at spotting or engaging a target if you're moving at ~5 mph in that formation.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Which is where the bulk penalty and the Committed Attack penalty to defense come in, I'd also give a -2 to Per, seems about right to me.

That one depends on what the patrol is for, if you have a destination and need to get there before people see you coming and leave, you hustle.

Like Sir Pudding said, that's generally not a patrol in jarhead-ese. It might be a difference in parlence. I was with a group of army guys one time and was told we were "going on patrol." Instead we walked down a road for several hours at a swift walk with rifles slung.

Originally Posted by TBS; Conduct of the Patrol

5. SECURITY AND MOVEMENT
a. Maintain an even and deliberate pace during movement! As a general rule, a foot patrol will move at a rate of
one kilometer per hour during the day and one-half kilometers per hour at night. When moving over difficult terrain and/or at
night, the guiding principle is to maintain contact with the Marine BEHIND you

Linky.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's not the preferred way to cross a danger zone. I suppose it could happen that way, but I wouldn't call that patrol movement.

I really couldn't care less if one group or another calls it patrol movement, area containment, movement to contact, target acquisition, or anything they feel like, it's basically called hauling ass to get the job done and getting the jump on your targets before the guys you want skedaddle or throw you an ambush.

Taking your time moseying down to your target at a walk is a good way to lose that target, or end up getting shot by setting yourself up as a target instead.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I am in fact familiar with how a patrol works (though we did double column with patrol leader and radioman in the middle near the front, usually). I realize you don't need 360 degree vision to do a patrol. You're still not anywhere near as effective at spotting or engaging a target if you're moving at ~5 mph in that formation.

Sure, double column, the loss of effectiveness is covered by the bulk penalty, -4 for a carbine, the -2 to defense, and the -2 to Per, like I'm suggesting, that's the choice you make when speed counts.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

I really couldn't care less if one group or another calls it patrol movement, area containment, movement to contact, target acquisition, or anything they feel like, it's basically called hauling ass to get the job done and getting the jump on your targets before the guys you want skedaddle or throw you an ambush.

Taking your time moseying down to your target at a walk is a good way to lose that target, or end up getting shot by setting yourself up as a target instead.

That's nice. It has absolutely no bearing on your assertion that you can ID and engage targets just as effectively at a slow stroll or hauling ass.