GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players

[Guillaume Ponce]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

(And if, "But we do sort of have a GURPS Medium, in the form of DF, Action, and (soon) Monster Hunters," popped into your mind when reading the above, then give yourself a point. These are how we handle "simplified, stripped-down GURPS" -- not as a cheap, half-complete version of the system, but instead as a guide to using the full system in a simple and stripped-down manner. I truly believe it's the best way to address the need, because it allows the GM and group to start simple, but then bring in added complexity as needed.)

That's cool.

I am a seasoned player, but always been a poor GM.
I failed several times to run a succesfull campaign with GURPS, not because of the simulation rules being too complex (former Rolemaster GM here) but because I was lost in the overwhelming set of possibilities, wanted to try it all, tended to allow way too much exotism at character creation (speaking horse, mute viking with hypnose skill …) and ended with broken characters ruining the adventure.

For 2011, as a resolution, I decided start it all over again with GURPS; with Action as a filter lens to allow me to manage the complexity and quietly learn how to GM with GURPS.

I don't mind buying books as I've already got quite a big collection of RPG books (GURPS, Rolemaster, some French RPGs …).
But for a newcomer, needing to get some more books to strip it down and keep it simple might seem odd.
But it's definitely the only way to go with a generic system.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Guillaume Ponce

I failed several times to run a successful campaign with GURPS, not because of the simulation rules being too complex (former Rolemaster GM here) but because I was lost in the overwhelming set of possibilities, wanted to try it all, tended to allow way too much exotism at character creation (speaking horse, mute viking with hypnose skill...) and ended with broken characters ruining the adventure.

Hello fellow-countryman!

I also had this kind of problems some years ago… But I solved it by using GURPS Lite, extensively. It really is a great tool!

Of course, as it has been said in many threads, it is not complete enough to really GM the game. But it allows to focus on the boiled-down essence of GURPS.

And for character creation, it is a very big help. I don't let my players read the Basic Set, for instance. Actually, they don't want to do it! Instead, I give them only GURPS Lite and, if they want something that is not inside, I help them to build it with Characters. This way, they only choose features that they really want. They don't try something just because it is in the book or because it could be fun.

Too my mind, the best way to begin with GURPS is to have the Basic Set plus GURPS Lite.

Then, the new GM uses only GURPS Lite, with a setting that allows it. A low-powered military game for instance, is a very good idea. But there are a lot of other possibilities: horror, western, medieval without magic...

The Basic Set lies on the table, next to the GM, but only for what is really missing: the weapons' stats, for instance. Or some absolutely indispensable advantages, disadvantages, skills or rules...

Then, step by step, as the GM and the players begin to be more used with the rules, they add some new options that make the game more fun... Fright checks, bleeding, hit locations...

That way, GURPS become very newcomer-friendly, doesn't it?

[Guillaume Ponce]

Hello fellow gurps-fr forumite!

Originally Posted by Gollum

That way, GURPS become very newcomer-friendly, doesn't it?

Well, maybe we should define what we mean as "newcomer".

Newcommer to GURPS but already a player / GM with other systems?
Or newcommer to RPG starting with GURPS?

For the former, GURPS is indeed perfectly fine.
GURPS fans even view it as getting from basic to advanced in the skill of playing RPGs.

For the latter, I don't know how I would have done with GURPS as my first system ever played.

I tend to think that there is no real way around the fact that GURPS is an advanced system (more so that some famous systems that had the word "advanced" in their title) which requires some previous experience with more basic stuff. I mean, if you are still learning what this RPG thing is as a concept, all the technical details of the "basic" set can be overwhelming.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Guillaume Ponce

Well, maybe we should define what we mean as "newcomer".
Newcomer to GURPS but already a player / GM with other systems?
Or newcomer to RPG starting with GURPS?

I fully do agree with you. When I was talking about newcomers, I was thinking about people who already know what a role playing game is.

For someone who never played before, GURPS will inevitably be very hard to understand. As you wrote it, the number of options will be overwhelming...

But, actually, few modern role paying games are made for true beginners.

D&D4 has exactly the same problem than GURPS. The huge number of characteristics and powers for a beginning character, and the new combat rules are quite hard to understand. I play D&D4 from time to time with a cousin and it's not at all as easy at it is said...

Likewise, the Basic Role Playing system is not so easy to learn. Call of Cthulhu is very simple, and quite well explained for new game masters. But the generic version of BRP, with its 400 pages, is quite overwhelming too...

If we were looking for a supplement made for true beginners, a summarize like GURPS Lite would be inadequate. Even if it was written with 50 or even 150 pages. Things would have to be very different with, in particular, a long explanation of what is a role playing game and how it works.

[cccwebs]

First, as stated earlier, GURPS is a toolkit not a setting. That said, there are two very important free downloads that are great for introducing new players to the GURPS toolkit. One is GURPS Lite and the other is Caravan to Ein Arris. While it may be a fantasy adventure, it is great for introducing the basic mechanics of the game to new GURPS players and GM's alike.


Maybe TPTB can create a snazzy animated gif for GURPS Lite and Caravan to Ein Arris for those spiffy animated ads in these forums?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Gollum

D&D4 has exactly the same problem than GURPS. The huge number of characteristics and powers for a beginning character, and the new combat rules are quite hard to understand. I play D&D4 from time to time with a cousin and it's not at all as easy at it is said...

With a group consisting of myself, two beginners, and an old-hat D&D player, we had pretty close to zero problems when I ran All Flesh Must Be Eaten. The D&D player has just started a Pathfinder game, and the beginners were absolutely flummoxed during character creation.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I had a few problems myself. I think it had as much to do with editing and organization as it did mechanics.

I'm probably running GURPS next with pre-gens or narrow templates.

[sn0wball]

What about a combination between an introductory adventure and GURPS Lite ? I seem to remember such stuff from new RPGs in the 90ies. And in the age of PDF, this shouldn´t be too expensive.

Some premade characters, a little adventure, a few key rules explained in the introduction and other rules are explained during the adventure, when they come up. The combat rules during the first combat encounter, reaction rules during the first negotiation and so on. If this is done nicely, the material could be used at conventions as an introductury adventure, especially if the characters have nice premade sheets with decent graphics.

There was a short adventure from the German licensees of GURPS 3e, Pegasus games, 48 pages long, featuring dimension travel and three different worlds. Of course, that one was for sale, but rather cheap, if I recall it right.

Have a few characters travel from a fantasy dungeon to a modern or scifi world or something like that and highlight the strengths of GURPS at combining settings.

[Guillaume Ponce]

Originally Posted by sn0wball

What about a combination between an introductory adventure and GURPS Lite ?

Brillant!
That would be a great tool.

Just a little adventure with 4 preset characters, the core rules as in GURPS Lite and stats for the stuff (advantages, disadvantages, skills, items) described in the adventure and no more.

If sucessfull the concept could be declined in a new line of products: one session ready to play GURPS powered adventures, for $10 each or so.
"Ready to play" would be the marketing label.

[Captain-Captain]

http://compare.ebay.com/like/3303666...=263602_304662

http://cgi.ebay.com/OEJ-GURPS-4th-Ed...item53e5a4dba0

[Christian]

Actually this is exactly how I handled my introduction play almost 10 years ago. GURPS lite, a dozen character templates (roughly one per TL), and a nice little adventure that was fun for everyone.

Can you imagine an adventure that includes the following chars:

- a leprechaun
- a 9 year old necromancer with her skel-cat
- a french courtesan from the time of Louis XIV
- a space-shiphand from the 31st century

3 out of the 4 players where total newbies, the 4th had played DSA (basically the german equivalent to AD&D). It worked like a charm. GURPS isn't hard for new players. It's hard for new GMs.