GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players

[Kalzazz]

Searchable pdfs are a super huge help . . . . Id buy the pdfs before Id buy the physical books for characters and campaigns

May I ask why you want to play GURPS in particular? I like GURPS a lot, but if your mail goal is a free easy for new players game for doing science fiction military stuff, you could consider D6 Space or something else as well (as a positive note, D6 and GURPS both use the same dice!)

Though, the only RPG I can remember I felt gave enough for solid gaming in one book is the DnD Rules Cyclopedia . . . but thats definitely not going to work for space gaming

GURPS though I think works really well due to its full details, ROF, Rcl, Acc etc for guns for instance, and the lovable range/speed table. And the various different types of attacks and defenses. And finally, the fact you can design just about anything . . . . thats really whats sold me on GURPS, the fun to use game mechanics and the fact 'whatever you can think of you can stat as a PC'

[D10]

Funny, sometimes I catch myself thinking that this game has become shallow and too concerned with being friendly to new players.

I played DnD for 5 years until i finally had enough, and wanted infinite rules!

[tg_ambro]

GURPS Lite sold me on GURPS. Sure, it may be limited, but I was able to run a Modern Supernatural campaign with. The plot focused on four investigators brought together by random chance, who all had motive to find a psionic arsonist. No, it wasn't perfect. We had one character so thoroughly broken, he's still joked about, but that had more to do with me trying to invent rules than GURPS Lite. The campaign required a lot of inventiveness, but when it finished, we'd had way more fun than when we played DnD so I didn't stay with GURPS Lite that long.

Essentially, GURPS Lite did it's two-fold job quite well. On my end, it made a great introduction to a great system for free. For SJG, it brought another loyal, paying customer to the fold.

[Luke Bunyip]

Josha, another piece of advice: run some test games.

When one playing group I know switched from 3.5 DnD to GURPS, they spent two months just doing combat tests. Admittedly, when I joined them, most games were set in a late medieval / early gumpowder period, but even then the lethality of the system was sobering.

Run some test games in a TL8-10 setting. Throw robots at them, crazed drug fiends with improvised munitions and high power hand weaponry. Attack them with 28 Days Later zombies. Maybe some cavetrolls with gauss weapons.

And then you can think about the impacts of information technology on tactical combat :)

My AU2c worth

[D10]

Originally Posted by Brett

Perhaps it is falling between two stools. The writing style, thick with explanations and examples, seems verbose and waffly to an experienced player, whereas the terse style I would prefer would seem dry and forbidding to a newchum. On the other hand, the arrangement of the rules (with all the character-generation rules in one place except for new rules introduced by Powers, Martial Arts, Action etc. is convenient for players who will be using GURPS for a wide range of campaigns but makes the basic set a twidgey bit forbidding to new players who might have bought GURPS with a particular genre or campaign in mind.

Interesting, i would really like to see someone expand more on this topic

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Brett

I tried that (distributing free PDF downloads of Lite to my players when I tried to start my first GURPS campaign), but it didn't work very well. There were a few rules that the players really could have done with that are not in Lite, such as the rules for buying disads with self-control numbers other than 12. Also, I seem to recollect problems with the incomplete skill list.

I would say that GURPS Lite is not particularly suited for a campaign, but it is pretty good for the "build a half dozen fighters and have them beat the crap out of each other" mini-game that is often suggested as an introduction to the system. You see all the major bits of character creation and game mechanics work. It's all heavily streamlined, but while it only gives you 10% of the rules, it's the 10% that covers 90% of actual play: "Roll 3d6, if total is less than or equal to skill, you succeed."

I do think that an introductory GURPS Not-Quite-So-Lite would be awesome.

[PK]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I do think that an introductory GURPS Not-Quite-So-Lite would be awesome.

The trouble with trying to do something "more" than GURPS Lite is that then we end up with a lot invested in it, to the point where we have to consider charging for it. And that's completely off the table.

(Why? Because then everyone who buys this hypothetical "GURPS Medium" is going to be upset at the fact that they have to pay full price for the Basic Set, since we write our books to complement the Basic Set, not GURPS Lite or a theoretical GURPS Medium. If someone spends any amount of money on core rules, whether $5 or $15, they're going to be far less willing to spend further money on the "real core rules" -- and that's something they'll eventually have to do if they want to use any other GURPS supplement.)

So Lite needs to be free, which means it can only include so much. As has been noted, though it's less than 10% of the Basic Set in pages, Lite easily covers 90% of the stuff you need in actual game play -- and that's pretty good. To get to even 95%, it would have to start creeping toward triple digits, at which point it becomes more than a freebie demo thing.

(And if, "But we do sort of have a GURPS Medium, in the form of DF, Action, and (soon) Monster Hunters," popped into your mind when reading the above, then give yourself a point. These are how we handle "simplified, stripped-down GURPS" -- not as a cheap, half-complete version of the system, but instead as a guide to using the full system in a simple and stripped-down manner. I truly believe it's the best way to address the need, because it allows the GM and group to start simple, but then bring in added complexity as needed.)

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

(And if, "But we do sort of have a GURPS Medium, in the form of DF, Action, and (soon) Monster Hunters," popped into your mind when reading the above, then give yourself a point. These are how we handle "simplified, stripped-down GURPS" -- not as a cheap, half-complete version of the system, but instead as a guide to using the full system in a simple and stripped-down manner. I truly believe it's the best way to address the need, because it allows the GM and group to start simple, but then bring in added complexity as needed.)

Which is exactly why I keep recommending them to people who are critical of GURPS, not that they listen, but hey.

[ideapod]

I'm still very new to GURPS. I'm intimidated by the main guides and all the material you have to read to get a GURPS Space campaign up, and GURPS lite is definitely the way to start understanding it. Now that I'm doing character creation I'm appreciating some of the subtleties and richness in the system. For example, my first take on character creation was that it seemed huge. I like the tradeoff of good/bad at all points - it puts tension into the character creation which is missing in DnD for example. But what grabbed was how much I was looking forward to the advantages/disadvantages once I'd done all the preliminary stuff, and how much I'd spent on the preliminary stuff. Suddenly my character sheet was filled with values crossed out and items added to. out of the margin etc. I have started to love my character and the play possibilities he is offering. Already he seems more real to me.

So, my view at this stage is buy it/borrow it and wade through it, because I think the rewards are there...

[Sword-dancer]

Originally Posted by Christian

The 3 basic DSA books is €95 (~$120), and that's for just ONE setting ....

Six books not three.