GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players - Page 2

CousinX · 01-15-2011, 03:47 PM

SJG has made a number of efforts to do just the things you're talking about, and met with varying degrees of success.

"Powered By GURPS" titles, with stripped-down setting-relevant GURPS rules for specific (often licensed) settings, include Hellboy, Star Trek, WWII, and probably others that I'm not thinking of at the moment. These are nice because they don't require the Basic Set to play, but they have met with varying levels of success. (My favorite, Hellboy, went out of print...) That, and I think they're all 3rd edition, except maybe Prime Directive (Star Trek).

The various "Quick-Start" lines -- Dungeon Fantasy and Action so far, with at least one more (Monster Hunters) on the horizon -- seem to be doing better. They require the Basic Set (and Magic, for DF), but they make it really easy to just throw together some PCs, grab an adventure module (or write your own), and start playing.

For a modern military game, the GURPS Action line is a decent place to start ... they focus on 80s-90s action movies and heroes, with sections on military action.

Haseri · 01-15-2011, 03:50 PM

If you're looking for a 2142-style game, I would suggest looking at Utra-Tech. It offers far more than the 11 or so TL 9+ weapons in Characters, as well as TL 9+ equipment.

Dunadin777 · 01-15-2011, 04:09 PM

If you're only interested in GMing, then the Basic Set is certainly the way to go. It's not too much relative to other mainstream RPGs, though. I don't think I've ever played a game of D&D where we didn't use three or more books--and that's for one very specific setting.

GURPS, on the other hand, is very accessible to the players. As a perpetual GM for my gaming group, I really value it's consistency. My players don't own the books--they use Lite and peruse my library in their down-time, but they otherwise rely on me to relate the story well. I've done this less successfully in several other RPG systems, and I must say that GURPS makes this really easy on the GM for leading others new to the game.

That said, if the cost is prohibitive to you, I'd suggest asking your players to shell out a couple of bucks each to help you along. After all, they're getting a lot of enjoyment out of the sessions too.

If the time spent reading the different books is prohibitive for you, I feel for you. I'm a pretty big reader, but I have a tough time keeping up with all the GURPS books I've picked up, let alone the rest of my fiction and RPG library.

zorg · 01-15-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josha

GURPS Lite doesn't really include enough to play, and I don't want to rush out and buy the books just yet. What should I do?

If you feel that Lite is too small, and the Basic Set too big, then I guess you're out of luck. Any advice I could give rests on you having access to the Basic Set.

sir_pudding · 01-15-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josha

GURPS Lite doesn't really include enough to play, and I don't want to rush out and buy the books just yet. What should I do?

Borrow them.

Some public libraries will be willing to order RPG books (I know this is apparently true in the magical land of "Europe" that Peter Knutsen lives in). Many FLGSes with public gaming spaces have store copies that they'll loan you. Perhaps a friend or acquaintance has GURPS books you can borrow? If you live in Southern California, PM me, and I'll suggest some specific persons/places that will loan RPG material.

josha · 01-15-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Borrow them.

Some public libraries will be willing to order RPG books (I know this is apparently true in the magical land of "Europe" that Peter Knutsen lives in). Many FLGSes with public gaming spaces have store copies that they'll loan you. Perhaps a friend or acquaintance has GURPS books you can borrow? If you live in Southern California, PM me, and I'll suggest some specific persons/places that will loan RPG material.

This is the best advice I've heard all day.
I live in Canada, but I have a few friends that could loan me GURPS books.

Xplo · 01-15-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josha

Now that I've evaluated it further, flipping through a friend's GURPS books are reading GURPS Lite; I've started to recognize it as a good system. However, I'm reluctant to start playing due to the enormous size of the core rulebooks and the enormous price that comes with them. GURPS Lite doesn't really include enough to play, and I don't want to rush out and buy the books just yet. What should I do?

PS. I'm mostly interested in gritty, low-powered military games.

Some thoughts:

- Amazon sells GURPS books cheaper than full retail.
- ISTR that the PDFs are also cheaper than the full retail cost of the printed books.
- You might be able to find discounted copies of the books at a used bookstore.
- You might be able to find the books at a library. (Okay, probably not, but it can't hurt to check.) I've actually heard a story about someone who convinced their local library to purchase copies of game books.
- GURPS 3e books are usually super-cheap now, and 3e uses basically the same system as 4e (although there are a lot of small changes, and some medium-sized ones). If you're willing to spend more in the long term in order to spend less up front, you could get the 3e books, and then switch to 4e if/when you think it's worth it.

OldSam · 01-15-2011, 05:06 PM

josha: definitely read [FAQ] Section 0 in the Forums if you haven't already...

In general I totally agree with respect to the title of the thread...

IMHO GURPS could really make more ground attracting newbie-players if the "road to playing / gamemastering success" would be easier and more inviting... (instead of seemingly lots of rules to read through)

I'd even vote for a non-expensive << "GURPS 4th Ed. Starter Edition" >> :-)

Including:

- A little expanded version of the Lite Rules.

- Ideally some attracting example-scenes that point in the direction of Dungeon Fantasy and Action, recommended as possible further sourcebooks for the Newbie-GM.

- Some nice graphics ;)

- Some guidelines how to be a good GURPS-GM and how to get used to the system...

- Including texts like the intro in "[FAQ] Section 0" would be a great help for beginners. Many don't know about that stuff and already give up after making a short contact with the Basic Set.

- A solo- and/or group-adventure helping to get started, like in the 3rd Edition Basic.

whswhs · 01-15-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josha

This is the best advice I've heard all day.
I live in Canada, but I have a few friends that could loan me GURPS books.

Borrowing a friend's game books is a good way to sample a game before you actually buy it.

Do you have a laptop? SJ Games will sell you the Basic Set in a PDF version, which is searchable; if you have a laptop you can take it to games without having to print it out. The price is a bit less than for the print edition.

Bill Stoddard

Captain Joy · 01-15-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josha

I have a few friends that could loan me GURPS books.

I look forward to your post in few days telling us all how after spending some time with the books, you've bought your own copies. :) I'll be genuinely surprised if GURPS can't handle your campaign concept.

If you intend to ever GM and/or play other genres, then you'll be really glad you went with GURPS.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm obviously a fan boy.

fyi, that FAQ article someone recommended you read can be found here

01-15-2011, 03:47 PM	#11
CousinX Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Shangri-La	Re: GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players SJG has made a number of efforts to do just the things you're talking about, and met with varying degrees of success. "Powered By GURPS" titles, with stripped-down setting-relevant GURPS rules for specific (often licensed) settings, include Hellboy, Star Trek, WWII, and probably others that I'm not thinking of at the moment. These are nice because they don't require the Basic Set to play, but they have met with varying levels of success. (My favorite, Hellboy, went out of print...) That, and I think they're all 3rd edition, except maybe Prime Directive (Star Trek). The various "Quick-Start" lines -- *Dungeon Fantasy* and *Action* so far, with at least one more (*Monster Hunters) on the horizon -- seem to be doing better. They require the Basic Set (and Magic, for DF), but they make it really* easy to just throw together some PCs, grab an adventure module (or write your own), and start playing. For a modern military game, the *GURPS Action* line is a decent place to start ... they focus on 80s-90s action movies and heroes, with sections on military action.

01-15-2011, 03:50 PM	#12
Haseri Join Date: Jun 2010	Re: GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players If you're looking for a 2142-style game, I would suggest looking at Utra-Tech. It offers far more than the 11 or so TL 9+ weapons in Characters, as well as TL 9+ equipment.

01-15-2011, 04:09 PM	#13
Dunadin777 Join Date: Nov 2010	Re: GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players If you're only interested in GMing, then the Basic Set is certainly the way to go. It's not too much relative to other mainstream RPGs, though. I don't think I've ever played a game of D&D where we didn't use three or more books--and that's for one very specific setting. GURPS, on the other hand, is very accessible to the players. As a perpetual GM for my gaming group, I really value it's consistency. My players don't own the books--they use Lite and peruse my library in their down-time, but they otherwise rely on me to relate the story well. I've done this less successfully in several other RPG systems, and I must say that GURPS makes this really easy on the GM for leading others new to the game. That said, if the cost is prohibitive to you, I'd suggest asking your players to shell out a couple of bucks each to help you along. After all, they're getting a lot of enjoyment out of the sessions too. If the time spent reading the different books is prohibitive for you, I feel for you. I'm a pretty big reader, but I have a tough time keeping up with all the GURPS books I've picked up, let alone the rest of my fiction and RPG library. __________________ Finds party's farmboy-helper about to skewer the captive brigand who attacked his sister. "I don't think I'm morally obligated to stop this..." Ten Green Gem Vine--Warrior-poet, bane of highwaymen

01-15-2011, 05:06 PM	#18
OldSam Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Göttingen, Germany	Re: GURPS would be more successful if it were more friendly to new players josha: definitely read [FAQ] Section 0 in the Forums if you haven't already... In general I totally agree with respect to the title of the thread... IMHO GURPS could really make more ground attracting newbie-players if the "road to playing / gamemastering success" would be easier and more inviting... (instead of seemingly lots of rules to read through) I'd even vote for a non-expensive << "GURPS 4th Ed. Starter Edition" >> :-) Including: - A little expanded version of the Lite Rules. - Ideally some attracting example-scenes that point in the direction of Dungeon Fantasy and Action, recommended as possible further sourcebooks for the Newbie-GM. - Some nice graphics ;) - Some guidelines how to be a good GURPS-GM and how to get used to the system... - Including texts like the intro in "[FAQ] Section 0" would be a great help for beginners. Many don't know about that stuff and already give up after making a short contact with the Basic Set. - A solo- and/or group-adventure helping to get started, like in the 3rd Edition Basic. Last edited by OldSam; 01-15-2011 at 05:19 PM.