Newbie GURPS GM Seeking Advice

[NMatuzic]

Hi all,

I have had a plan to run a Fantasy campaign set in a world of my own creation for some time now. After a bit of thought, I've decided to run this using the GURPS system, but I am almost a complete newbie to it (recently I partook in a 3-part Star Wars mini-campaign as a player, using the GURPS rules), and I'd like a bit of advice from seasoned folk. In addition to my newbieness, a have a group with not much experience of the system.

The decision to use GURPS was made after some nice chat on another gaming forum, and I have been given copious amounts of "start small, add more as you go" types of tips. I have the core books, and will use Fantasy, Low Tech, Magic and Thaumatology (and maybe Martial Arts) as the campaign progresses. But for now, I'm thinking small, and thus just the core.

My main problem, though, is I'm used to gaming systems with clear structure and levels when it comes to characters. I'm finding it hard to wrap my mind around how powerful a character feels using a certain amount of character points.

Originally, I had planned on running a D&D campaign, beginning at level 1. Essentially, I guess, I'm asking how many character points in GURPS would give an approximate feel of similar power levels as 1st level D&D characters? I was thinking of using either 75 or 100 points, with a max of 25 or 50 points of disadvantages. Does that sound about right?

Secondly, I would also like some advice on nice amounts of point rewards to keep the characters slowly but steadily improving over time?

Many thanks for any and all advice thrown my way!

[Dragondog]

I have seen 50+level*50 points suggested on these boards, perhaps even by Kromm. This is what I use as a rule of thumb. But it can't be more than that, for in GURPS you can spend your points any way you like.

A 100 point generalist could be beaten by a 25 point specialist. So there's no way to really define how powerful a character is in a given area, e.g. combat, by looking at the points alone.

But 100 points sounds about right.

The books suggests about 1-5 points per session.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NMatuzic

Secondly, I would also like some advice on nice amounts of point rewards to keep the characters slowly but steadily improving over time?

I tend to give 1 point for simple attendance, 1 point for participation, 1 point for decent roleplaying, and 1 point for either outstanding roleplaying or an exceptionally good solution to a problem. Maybe 2 points for the last if someone is really spectacular, but that's rare. I'll be more generous than usual if a character went through the wringer, provided that the player made it a dramatic scene and didn't whine about unfairness or retreat into sullen silence.

Bill Stoddard

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by NMatuzic

In addition to my newbieness, a have a group with not much experience of the system.

Eek. Get in that combat section and make some generic mooks and play some mock combats before gaming. Get to know the combat system as well as you can.

Here's how I make characters:

We all sit down at the table. I am the only one with books. We do a really quick, "what type of character or you going to play" session. Then, I suggest Attribute stats as fast as I can. "ST 12, DX 13, IQ 12, HT 12," just as fast as I can and I tell them the point total and where to write it on the sheet.

Then, they all listen at once as I read the Advantages aloud. I suggest an amount to spend and some of the given Advantages as I get to them, (e.g., "Combat Reflexes" for most all warrior-types).

Then, they all listen and take Disadvantages as I read them aloud.

After that, we do the same for skills. I help them tally the skill levels as we go.

After that, we chop points off because they will have too many.

The decision to use GURPS was made after some nice chat on another gaming forum, and I have been given copious amounts of "start small, add more as you go" types of tips.

That is excellent advice. More than the two Basic Set books and Magic and your head is going to be swimming. You'll be overwhelmed as it is. Adding Martial Arts and all those others will break you.

I have the core books, and will use Fantasy, Low Tech, Magic and Thaumatology (and maybe Martial Arts) as the campaign progresses. But for now, I'm thinking small, and thus just the core.

I have Fantasy. Almost never use it. I don't have Thaum'gy. Low Tech is still being crunched up by my brain. It's pretty tough.

My main problem, though, is I'm used to gaming systems with clear structure and levels when it comes to characters. I'm finding it hard to wrap my mind around how powerful a character feels using a certain amount of character points.

It's relative. If every soldier, goblin, merchant, and pick-pocket on the street is a 100-point character, then your 100-point PC's are going to feel very weak.

Basically, most suggest 150 points with a disadvatage limit (page 11 of Characters) at half that, or -75 points. That's what all my fantasy campaigns have been.

Dungeon Fantasy, a great line of books, has 250/-50-point PC's, IIRC.

Here's the official rundown (p. B487):

1. Feeble (under 25 points);
2. Average (25-50 points);
3. Competent (50-75 points);
4. Exceptional (75-100 points);
5. Heroic (100-200 points);
6. Larger-than-Life (200-300 points);
7. Legendary (300-500 points);
8. Superhuman (500-1,000 points);
9. Godlike (over 1,000 points).

Read "Power Level," B487, for more information.

Originally, I had planned on running a D&D campaign, beginning at level 1. Essentially, I guess, I'm asking how many character points in GURPS would give an approximate feel of similar power levels as 1st level D&D characters? I was thinking of using either 75 or 100 points, with a max of 25 or 50 points of disadvantages. Does that sound about right?

Honestly, I wouldn't try to simulate that part of D&D exactly. GURPS combat is extremely deadly.

I'd try 100/-50 or 150/-75 to start out. They won't be overpowered if you nix or keep to a minimum supernatural and cinematic traits.

Secondly, I would also like some advice on nice amounts of point rewards to keep the characters slowly but steadily improving over time?

See Awarding Bonus Character Points, p. B498.

Footnotes: zero to five, averaging two or three points, per session.

Know that if I had it to do over again, I would start with Dungeon Fantasy. DF 1, 2 are excellent, almost essential to the fantasy genre.

Good luck!

[Gef]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Get in that combat section and make some generic mooks and play some mock combats before gaming. Get to know the combat system as well as you can.

I definitely agree with Stripe here. You wanna get a sense of how powerful a 100pt character is? Make some, and put them in an arena. I like the depth of his answer so I'll keep quoting him for reference, even though my advice differs a tad.

Originally Posted by Stripe

Then, I suggest Attribute stats as fast as I can. "ST 12, DX 13, IQ 12, HT 12,"

These are some very high stats, 140pt worth. Make sure you understand the advantage "Talent" - the variations listed are just samples. Talent is the key to making capable characters AND differentiated characters. Make sure you realize that the suggestion not to allow "Weapon Talent" is not the same as disallowing talents that include weapon skills. The point is to keep them focused; a narrow focus (5pt talent) is actually the most cost-effective.

Originally Posted by Stripe

It's relative. If every soldier, goblin, merchant, and pick-pocket on the street is a 100-point character, then your 100-point PC's are going to feel very weak.

But you can work out some guidelines. Skill 12 is entry-level professional, or journeyman in the guild system. The rule of thumb is that routine circumstances give a +4 bonus; that means skill 12 succeeds on 16 or less on routine jobs, like making a common tool from decent materials in an equipped workshop, as long as it's not a rush job. (The analogous +4 bonus for combat skills is the Telegraphic Attack described in Martial Arts.)

So, a typical journeyman professional has average attributes, Status 0, Wealth Average (more of each than a serf), 8 points in an Average skill, and maybe 5 points if you require Rank in a guild and apprentices are Rank 0. That's 13 points, before personal traits.

Give the journeyman a few years to gain more experience, rising to skill 15, and submit his masterpiece. He now has guild Rank 2 (for 10 points, granting Status 1), Comfy Wealth (10 more points), and 20 in his main skill. The average man of status has 40 points plus personal traits, so call him a 50pt character with 25 in disads (probably including Dependants). If he has IQ 12, a militia commission, or some other significant (costly) advantage, he could still be built, easily, on 80 points with 40 in disads. So a mere 100 still puts a starting character above an average pillar of the community.

Originally Posted by Stripe

Basically, most suggest 150 points with a disadvatage limit (page 11 of Characters) at half that, or -75 points. That's what all my fantasy campaigns have been.

And I suggest 100pt characters, with 50 in disads, but doubling the recommended rate of point awards, especially to match the feel (not the detail) of DnD level advacement.

Here's why I think 100 is plenty, for a starting fighter:

ST 13 (30)
Will 12 (10)
Combat Reflexes (15)
Talent +4 (Bow, Fast-Draw, Hiking, Shield, Shortsword, Soldier; 20)
Very Fit (15)
Weapon Master: Shortsword (Pact -10% to serve the war god; 18)
Disads (-50)
Bow-14 (2)
Brawling-12 (4)
Broadsword-16 (from Shortsword)
Farming-9 (1) - or substitute the profession of your father
FD/Arrow-16 (2)
FD/Knife-15(1)
FD/Sword-15(1)
Hiking-13 (1)
Knife-15 (from Shortsword)
Scrounging-10 (1)
Shield-16 (4)
Shortsword-18 (16)
Stealth-10 (2)
Soldier-14 (2)
Swimming-10 (1)
Thrown Knife-12 (4)

Sure, he needs more Per, more Move, and more skills; Survival would be nice, and social skills like Carousing. As a staring character, he SHOULD need more of something.

Here's a kid who can attack three times in one second (telegraphic rapid strike) rolling against 16 for each, damage 2d+3/cut if he hits. (The target gets a bonus to defend against a telegraphic attack, but gets penalized for multiple defenses on the same turn, resulting in a high likelihood that at least one of the trio connects.) With a medium shield, he parries on 15, or blocks at 14. Frankly, I think this is significantly better capability than a 1st-level DnD character.

I could illustrate the point with a wizard, too. The key advantage is Energy Reserve (basically, Extra Fatigue) for Fave College Only (-40%) and either Gadget (a wand works out to -40% or so) or Requires Familiar. For 18 points, you get an extra 30 points of spell energy.


Thaumatology is all about tweaking the magic system. It helps if you understand that system pretty well to start with. I think the Martial Arts book is a greater benefit; you need the combat options in there to help a warrior keep up with a wizard.

Search on this forum for terms like newbie and advice, and you'll find plenty of folks have asked the same question you have and gotten fairly detailed responses from collective.

GEF

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by NMatuzic

Originally, I had planned on running a D&D campaign, beginning at level 1. Essentially, I guess, I'm asking how many character points in GURPS would give an approximate feel of similar power levels as 1st level D&D characters? I was thinking of using either 75 or 100 points, with a max of 25 or 50 points of disadvantages. Does that sound about right?

Level to GURPS translations are rough at best.

Keep in mind that due to the amount of variation in charachter builds, you can get a lot of different types of characters fro 100 points. Get a handle on that. The example that you'll see thrown around the forums is that of the 100 point of accountant vs the 100 point warrior. The accountant, with his points burned up in accounting, math, administration etc, wouldnt stand a chance against 100 points of minmaxed lethality.

For the D&D game your thinking of running, Id recomend getting Dungeon Fantasy 1 (Its 8$) and it will give you and your charachters templates to build off of. Be warned, the templates in there are a fairly high point value, so I recomend looking at Eric B Smith's guidlines for DF on a budget.

Finally, keep in mind that the only thing that charachter points are really useful for is differentiating characters from each other. People who spend more points on Advantages and Skills will be better in certain areas than those who spend their points elsewhere.

Nymdok

p.s. I think Kmunoz did a GURPS conversion of Keep on the Borderlands and Collective restraint did a conversion of White plume mountain if your interested.

[Stormcrow]

Think of GURPS starting character levels as an approximate description of how capable the characters are, in general, compared to ordinary people.

Then ignore character points as power levels. Once you start playing, they don't really measure your character's "strength" anymore. Anytime you want to measure your character's abilities, you're going to do it in reference to some specific activity, but your total character points don't measure that.

[nanoboy]

It's funny. DnD 3E introduced Challenge Ratings for DMs to figure out what enemies would be a good match for their PCs. Prior to that, DMs just picked out their encounters based on experience and intuition, and GMs of nearly all other games have kept doing that. Heck, I'm sure that a large number of DnD 3E DMs never bothered with Challenge Ratings at all.

In GURPS, you just have to kind of pick your enemies based on common sense. Here are some guidelines for enemy defenses:

1. Don't give your enemies more Damage Resistance (DR) than your average PC can dish out on an average hit. Players will get frustrated when their weapons consistently fail to penetrate armor. There are exceptions, of course, like when it's one giant enemy, and the PCs are trying to find a weakness, but for run-of-the-mill encounters with goblins, orcs, and bandits, use this guideline.

2. For enemies who are just supposed to die, keep HT scores relatively low (less than 12, definitely.) When one mook keeps making his consciousness check, despite all of the damage, it's amusing. When all of them keep making consciousness checks, it's frustrating.

3. Mooks with high active defenses can be equally frustrating for players. If your PCs keep succeeding in their attack rolls, but all of the goblins have dodge 12 and keep dodging, that is very frustrating. In such a situation, you can encourage your players to try the feint rules or the deceptive attack rule, but if this slows down combat, there can be a problem.

4. Hit points are important, but they are less of a concern, I've found. As long as PCs do damage to enemies, players tend to be pretty satisfied. In general, humanoid mooks should have 8 to 12 HP, and monsters' HP can vary.

Here are some guidelines for enemy offense:

1. Enemy weapon skill should not be more than 2 levels higher than the average PC, unless that enemy is a boss or something. If you do have enemies with high skill, try teaching your players how to make good use of it through feints, deceptive attacks, and targeting hit locations.

2. Be careful with weapon damage. GURPS can be fairly unforgiving of taking huge hits. If an enemy can do more than the average character's HP after DR reduction in a single average hit, the players should be very aware of that. That enemy is extremely dangerous.

I hope that those help.

[benz72]

When you run your mock combats you my want to consider bringing your players in on the last one. It will help them get a feel for three things
1) 1 second combat rounds
2) GURPS lethality
3) Combat sequence / options

All of these are imortant to have some familiarity with for a smooth session (if it includes fights)

A lot of D&D converts (IME) think they can do a LOT more in a 1 sec round than is reasonable (e.g. move to an attack position, swing a wepon and speak a paragraph) The short rounds don't let you do much in each one, but you get more of them and more detail. practice with the combat sequence and the most common options until they are very familiar.

GURPS doesn't increase PC hit points like that other game. A 350 point bad@$$ will die with the same wounds as his 50 point prepubescent nephew. He should be MUCH harder to hit and wearing better gear to soak up damage if he is hit, but he is not substantially more durable.
Somewhat related to this is the compete ubersuck of being outnumbered in melee combat. 5th level fighters may be able to wade through legions of goblin mooks, but 200 point fighters need to be wary of two or three of them working as a team, circling, keeping range and overwhelming his defenses.

Having everybody know what dice to roll and when (for the most part / basic stuff) will make the game go a lot more smoothly. Let your payers test drive a few mooks around in the arena before they take their new favorite PCs in to combat. Have them AoA with an opponent in range and see what happens to them when they get no defense roll next turn. Have them reload a crossbow for 4 (it is 4 right?) seconds while their friends are whacking opponents every turn. Have them take damaga and have to deal with shock penalties, reduced movement and fright checks.

Speaking of fright checks, this is an excellent tool for a GM to use to change the flavor of experience for PCs. Have the newbies roll at substantial penalties for their first encounter with horrible death, or their own major wound etc. As they get more experienced, reduce or eliminate the penalties and then eventually just stop having them roll for 'common adventurer' kinds of horrific things.

e.g. Havin a dead body fall on you would freak out lots of normal people, including newbs on their first adventure. After a while, you will need to throw more disturbing things at them if you want to create a creepy atmoshphere (one of their friends gets messily killed and splatters all over them, or rises from the dead and comes after them).

Good Luck

[Gef]

Originally Posted by benz72

Have them reload a crossbow for 4 (it is 4 right?)

Yes: 1 to draw, 1 to load, 2 to cock (which is really 1 to draw the string back, and 1 to ready into firing position): Aim on the 5th turn, fire on the 6th. Fast-Draw shaves off a second, and not aiming shaves off a second. Firing a heavier crossbow with a mechanical aid to cock it takes longer.

However, crossbows have a huge advantage over bows that may be lost on newbies: The pop-up attack. Sorry, I forget the page number, but the gist is that you can crouch behind cover, a boulder or a big shield, ready your crossbow, pop up and fire only briefly exposed, then duck back down to reload, as you see depicted with firearms in plenty of Westerns. Archers can't use this trick, so they need guards, which means that a bow, firing every fourth turn with aim, actually has a lower rate of fire PER MAN if each archer has a shield bearer.

This is a perfect example of how the GURPS combat makes a lot of sense when you really get into it, which is why you've gotta take the time for some practice runs. Otherwise you wind up with players who think the system is broken, in this case asking why anyone in their right mind would use a crossbow, when in fact they haven't learned the system. There's a recent thread along this line as an object lesson: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=75609

GEF