Perk Limit

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Should combat (and style) perks count against the suggested perk limit on page 3 of Power-Ups 2 or are they additional?

Personally, I don't think most normal perks should be limited at all; limiting combat (and magical style) perks is a way of reinforcing the settiing by encouraging the use of styles (martial or magical).

I'm not sure what purpose a general perk limit serves.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Here's my take:

Interesting. It isn't however terribly clear, or there wouldn't be so many elbows in this thread.

Originally Posted by cmdicely

I'm not sure what purpose a general perk limit serves.

Me neither, but Kromm must think differently or he wouldn't have suggested it. I'd like to understand what that is.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Interesting. It isn't however terribly clear, or there wouldn't be so many elbows in this thread.

I think it's pretty clear.

• Generally, the number of perks is limited to "point total divided by 25".
  
• Combat perks are more limited: in addition to the condition above, they must not be more than "points spent on combat/military/police skills, divided by 20".
  
• Learning a style is a way to go beyond these limits. It can give N extra style perks, where N is no greater than "points spent on the style, divided by 10".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

I think it's pretty clear.

I see where you are coming from, but if it was so obviously transparent there wouldn't be so many who seem to think otherwise.

[Gurps Fan]

Sorry, English is difficult.

[Kromm]

Perk limits are mandatory for styles – magical or martial – to give styles added value, but merely a suggestion to the GM otherwise. General perks are on top of anything specific you get for styles. If you have 40 points in the skills of a fighting style, you can learn four Style Perks for your style and two extra for all those points you spent. If you have 20 points in the spells of a magical style, you can learn two Magic Perks for your style and one extra for having lots of spells. If the GM imposes the "one perk per 25 points" limit from Power-Ups 2, that's an extra bonus . . . a lot like "any PC can have five quirks, regardless of how many points he's worth or what he spends his points on." Thus, if your 150-point PC has 40 points in the skills of a fighting style and 20 points in the spells of a magical style, he can have six general perks, six Style Perks, and three Magic Perks in total.

Magic Perks and Style Perks tend to be a lot more potent than general perks, so their limits are more important. The idea is that these perks serve as small enhancements on magic or combat capability, priced to scale with skill-point outlay rather than the cost of enabling advantages (Magery, Trained by a Master, etc.). Whereas while general perks can enhance skills, they're mainly about characterization – like quirks, but unequivocally beneficial. If the GM limits these, it's more to avoid hard-to-roleplay characters than to balance capabilities.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Thus, if your 150-point PC has 40 points in the skills of a fighting style and 20 points in the spells of a magical style, he can have six general perks, six Style Perks, and three Magic Perks in total.

Why isn't that 4 Style Perks (1/10points) and 2 unrestricted combat perks (1/20points)?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Thus, if your 150-point PC has 40 points in the skills of a fighting style and 20 points in the spells of a magical style, he can have six general perks, six Style Perks, and three Magic Perks in total.

Why isn't that 4 Style Perks (1/10points) and 2 unrestricted combat perks (1/20points)?

Are the six general perks restricted to non-combat perks?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why isn't that 4 Style Perks (1/10points) and 2 unrestricted combat perks (1/20points)?

Are the six general perks restricted to non-combat perks?

Huh? "Style Perk" is the term of art for any combat perk, however you justify it. That's just what they're called.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Huh? "Style Perk" is the term of art for any combat perk, however you justify it. That's just what they're called.

In this thread, because it's been important to distinguish "Any combat perk" from "The combat perks listed specifically for your style," most have been using Combat Perk and Style Perk for those, respectively. That's why sir_pudding was a bit thrown by the clarification. But, of course, the real question above was "how do you balance the mix of Style Perks and general perks?" You (Kromm) addressed that that here, and did so quite clearly IMO.

If it helps, I suppose it's worth breaking it down in even more detail by saying that if a 150-point PC has 40 points in the skills of a fighting style and 20 points in the spells of a magical style, he can have six general perks, two unrestricted Style Perks, four additional Style Perks specific to his fighting style, one unrestricted Magic Perk, and two additional Magic Perks specific to his magical style.