[DF] Even larger over-sized gear (Ogre Barbarian)?

[GnomesofZurich]

This occurred to me when DF3 came out, but only came to mind again recently.

Although pg. 4 of Dungeon Fantasy 3 (under the header "Overlap") certainly implies that when taking a Barbarian Ogre that Gigantism should be dropped (the ST given only applies a -10% modifier for SM+1), I see no real reason why you couldn't have an Ogre with Gigantism, giving SM+2 and further reducing the cost of ST and extra HP. It's a munchkin thing to do, right?

The difficulty becomes how to interpret the rules for "Weapons for Giants" (DF1 p.27) and "Armor for Giants" (DF1 p.28) rules for SM+2.

Any opinions as to the progression for larger size modifiers?

For weapons I think the likely progression may be:
SM 0 normal cost, weight and damage
SM 1 1.5 times cost, weight, ST and damage bonus (minimum +1)
SM 2 2 time cost, weight, ST and damage bonus (minimum +2)

For armor, the likely progression is:
SM 0 normal cost, weight
SM 1 double cost, weight
SM 2 triple cost, weight

Trying to extrapolate a pattern based on two points isn't very reliable, but that would be my take.

Any thoughts?

[Kissamies]

It is not a simple thing and the progression wouldn't be linear. The armor probably scales by the area and weapons should have more complex scaling. The Low-Tech Companion 2 will have scaling rules, I believe. I'm eagerly waiting those.

[Bruno]

In DF, Weapon scale is based on linear scale - SM +2 things are 2x as tall as SM 0 things, so weapons are twice as heavy, get 2x damage bonus (minimum +2), and cost twice as much.

Armor scale is based on linear scale squared, rounded to a whole number. Armor therefore weighs and costs 4x as much.

[GnomesofZurich]

Originally Posted by Bruno

In DF, Weapon scale is based on linear scale - SM +2 things are 2x as tall as SM 0 things, so weapons are twice as heavy, get 2x damage bonus (minimum +2), and cost twice as much.

Armor scale is based on linear scale squared, rounded to a whole number. Armor therefore weighs and costs 4x as much.

Thanks Bruno!

[GnomesofZurich]

A related question to the one above: do increased SM weapons also have increased Reach? I could see this paralleling that for increased SM creatures: SM 1 doesn't change Reach, SM 2 increases the Reach by 1.

Comments?

[Sam Baughn]

I've written some house rules for larger weapons, but they aren't compatible with the ones from Dungeon Fantasy.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=67770

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich

Although pg. 4 of Dungeon Fantasy 3 (under the header "Overlap") certainly implies that when taking a Barbarian Ogre that Gigantism should be dropped (the ST given only applies a -10% modifier for SM+1), I see no real reason why you couldn't have an Ogre with Gigantism, giving SM+2 and further reducing the cost of ST and extra HP. It's a munchkin thing to do, right?

Yes, you should only consider that a SM+2 muscular humanoid will be about 4 yards tall, will have shoulders five feet broad, so he won't be able to pass through most dungeons :) I think this is the reason why the Ogre Barbarian lacks Gigantism.

Not to mention he will weigh more than 1500 lbs, so many structures won't support him and his companions will be unable to drag him if he's wounded...

Also, a "giant giant" (or a Dwarf with Dwarfism) seems a little bit out of genre for DF. In the typical fantasy mindset, being an Ogre is just an alternate way of being a giant barbarian...

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich

A related question to the one above: do increased SM weapons also have increased Reach? I could see this paralleling that for increased SM creatures: SM 1 doesn't change Reach, SM 2 increases the Reach by 1.

Comments?

Increased SM weapons also have increased reach - for DF, just multiply the minimum and maximum reach by the same linear scale modifier for weight and cost, just like the Barbarian weapons are modified.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Kissamies

It is not a simple thing and the progression wouldn't be linear. The armor probably scales by the area and weapons should have more complex scaling. The Low-Tech Companion 2 will have scaling rules, I believe. I'm eagerly waiting those.

There's "realistic biomechanical rules that have a deep respect for material properties", there's "realistic simple geometric rules" and then there's "matches our expectations as set by cartoons and comic books" (due to the shortage of actual 20 foot tall giants).

The first would fill a text book and would need more information about each GURPS weapon than we currently have (or can get, considering how generic each one really is).

The second produces results that are simple to get to, are naievely accurate, and would likely horrify engineers everywhere.

The third requires artistic interpretation, along with scaling a figure using this yardstick. But produces results that the layman would expect, and therefore would call "realistic" until shown otherwise.

[Bruno]

I lost the point somewhere.

The point is that DF uses a combination of 2 and 3 - the low tech scaling rules, from various comments made in the forums I suspect are going to basically be some variation of 2 (not a lot of 3 or 1).