TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Probably better off with ceramics.

That depends on many things.

Fragments, for example, will be more damaging if made of metal than ceramics. Also, the range and penetration of metal shells will be far superior to ceramic shells of the same weight.

The density of metal may come into play. If the ballista will only launch projectiles of a certain size accurately, you are restricted to that size. If your explosive payload has a specific density similar to that of water, you might want a metal shell of a certain weight to ensure that the final projectile has the same size and weight as a granite ball.

I anticipate ceramics being used for certain roles, much more expensive glass being used for others and metal being primarily useful for magical equivalents to APEX rounds.

[Purple Haze]

Originally Posted by Icelander

If we imagine that TL3+1 stone throwers were used to shoot fantasy equivalents to artillery shells, i.e. spheres with magical or alchemical explosive or incendiary substances use magical fuses, what is the practical limit on how much of the shell weight needs to be devoted to the structural integrity of the projectile and how much can be explosive?

Could TL4 technology make a 5 lbs. hollow metal sphere with very thin walls that could contain 10 lbs. of explosive and still tolerate the stresses of being flung from a monakon that could range 800 yards or so?

If you have an explosive, whether magical or alchemical, then you have firearms and the whole mechanical artillery discussion is moot.

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

If you have an explosive, whether magical or alchemical, then you have firearms and the whole mechanical artillery discussion is moot.

Not necessarily. Magic or alchemy might be able to make high explosives but not propellant.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

If you have an explosive, whether magical or alchemical, then you have firearms and the whole mechanical artillery discussion is moot.

Not unless the magical/alchemical explosive is easily available to everyone and economic enough to make it practical for large scale military applications.

Given that a broadside of cannon using magical smokepowder instead of gunpowder would cost far more than the ship firing it, this does not hold true in the setting. Firearms and cannon exist, yes, but are far too expensive in operation for most groups or even nation states.

Player characters, on the other hand, are just the sort of buggers who'd take an artillery piece that usually shoots a $10 stone and load it with a $4500 alchemical shell with a magical fuse. So I need to work out the implications of that, even if few NPCs would want to shoot such projectiles at $23,000 ships in any but the most extraordinary circumstances.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Not necessarily. Magic or alchemy might be able to make high explosives but not propellant.

It can make both. The problem is the cost.

[Purple Haze]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Not necessarily. Magic or alchemy might be able to make high explosives but not propellant.

A high explosive is a propellant. It is easy to tweak the speed at which an explosion happens, but mostly irrelevant anyway for a firearm.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

If you have an explosive, whether magical or alchemical, then you have firearms and the whole mechanical artillery discussion is moot.

Firearms also require some metallurgical advancements.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

A high explosive is a propellant. It is easy to tweak the speed at which an explosion happens, but mostly irrelevant anyway for a firearm.

The most affordable alchemical payloads in the setting, however, are not propellants. They are incendiaries.

'Thayan Fire' for $10 per pint and Alchemist's Fire for $100 per pint are something that are used in warfare. Fill earthenware jars with it and shoot at the enemy, with or without a burning fuse attached. But they burn rapidly, they don't really explode. There are some bombards which use contained burning of such incendiaries to propel their missiles, but it is really not much better than the best mechanical artillery.

Smokepowder, which is alchemical/magical gunpower*, is far more expensive. In fact, it costs around $10,000+ to buy a pound of it. Would you use something that expensive to propel a lead ball if you have any other alternatives?

*For complicated metaphysical reasons, gunpowder does not work in the setting. It burns, but it does not explode. Gods may be involved.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Firearms also require some metallurgical advancements.

Metallurgy in the setting is mature TL4, with some experimental TL3+2 research and even prototype applications in some fields.

[Purple Haze]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Firearms also require some metallurgical advancements.

Bronze was prefered until the advent of high grade steel. Firearms would be perfectly feasible at TL2 if there was a suitable explosive for a propellant.