[UT/Mass Combat] Actual usefulness of Jetpacks / Jump-packs / Powered Gliders / etc.

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

Mass Combat mentions flying battlesuits; UT has its share of personal flying contraptions; WH40K has Raptors, XV25 Jetpacks and many others; C&C has Jetpack infantry, jet-jumping Zone Troopers and winged Shadow Teams; Starcraft has Reapers; Dark Void has the couple of experimental flying jetpacks among humans, and less experimental hover-jetpacks among the Watchers. But . . . how practical would such items be in actual tactical use? How much of a difference would they make?

Thanks in advance!

[Tinman]

In a modern battlefield it is an axiom that if you can see it you can kill it.
I would look at the nearest real world equivlent. I think Airborne/Airmobile troops. Or read the opening chapter of 'Starship Troopers' by Hinlen.

Units equiped with that type of eq would use it primarily for stratigic mobility. Not for use in the face of the enemy. Against weak, unprepared foes and having supprise, maybe, they could do a direct assault.

Mostly though, I expect them to act as normal infantry, who are able to cross small rivers or bypass cliffs easily. Flying in the open, in the air on a modern battlefiled? Thats a quick way to get dead. IMO.

[Sam Baughn]

Being able to easily traverse obstacles and sieze high ground seems like a pretty significant advantage, as does the ability to make pop-up attacks against enemy armour. Deploying like paratroopers or helicopter-transported infantry but without having to be so picky about landing zones is nice as well.

I'd say they have more obvious uses and fewer glaring weaknesses than walking battlesuits.

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by Tinman

Mostly though, I expect them to act as normal infantry, who are able to cross small rivers or bypass cliffs easily. Flying in the open, in the air on a modern battlefiled? Thats a quick way to get dead. IMO.

Yup. The primary use of that kind of thing would be overcoming obstacles such as lines of razor ribbon, fencing, anti-tank barriers, etc that would impede non-jump capable infantry. Jetpack infantry is still infantry, and from the perspective of the infantry, being up in the air sucks- there's no cover up there.

[vicky_molokh]

I just looked at the stats, comparing them, and here's the results I got:

Sky Troopers are TS 160, F, Rec for $300k at TL10^. Which is roughly TS 2,666 for $5M.
CAS Aircraft TS (1,000), Air, $5M, TL7. Upgraded to TS (8,000) at TL10 for the same price.
Flying Tank TS 1,600, Air, Arm, Cv, F, $3M. Roughly TS 2,666 for $5M.
Flying Battlesuits are TS800, Air (Arm), F, Rec, $2M. Or 2,000 for $5M.

Ground Battlesuits are TS800 (Air, Arm), F, Rec$200K, TL9. That's a whopping TS 40,000 for $5M at TL10.

Seems like indeed the Flying X in general is inferior to CAS Aircraft for TS as long as we primarily care about (TS) only, Sky Troopers inferior to Flying Battlesuits, which are inferior to Flying tanks. Ground Battlesuits, though, seem to be the way to go, as they provide enough TS per buck to negate pretty much anything that flies, and lots of stuff that walks.
But!
MBT, 500 Arm, Cv, F, $750K, TL7. That's 26,666 TS per $5M. Pretty nasty, even though MBTs will be chewed through by BS troopers.

[vierasmarius]

For the Jump-equipped Battlesuits seen in games and fiction, I'd actually just add Cav to regular Battlesuits to represent the improved mobility. As depicted, they don't actually fight in the air, so the Air class doesn't really feel appropriate. Of course, I'm not the one who wrote the rules. =P

[borithan]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

For the Jump-equipped Battlesuits seen in games and fiction, I'd actually just add Cav to regular Battlesuits to represent the improved mobility. As depicted, they don't actually fight in the air, so the Air class doesn't really feel appropriate. Of course, I'm not the one who wrote the rules. =P

This was how I thought it would be best to model Assault Marines from 40k (well, I was rating them extremely advanced infantry rather than as battlesuits). They cannot compete against actual aircraft, but it does give them greater mobility, so giving the Cav classification made the most sense (In this particular case I also removed the Fire classification as they only carry very close range weapons). Raptors are basically identical.

[SuedodeuS]

The point of such contraptions is mobility, being able to make use of terrain - or ignore it - nearly instantly. If a group of infantry want to get to the top of a building, they need to go inside, and climb the stairs (and possibly engaging enemies inside), which can take quite some time. Give them good jump-packs, and they can get up there in seconds. Similarly, physical obstructions aren't really barriers to them, as they can just hop on/over them without too much issue.

On an open plain, I'd expect such devices to be liabilities. Flying/jumping around is basically screaming "Shoot me!" if you don't have exceptional maneuverability, and that added weight means you aren't going to be carrying as much ordnance/armor. As terrain gets more broken, with elevation changes and barriers, such devices become much more useful.

EDIT: Oh, and a very minor quibble - in Starcraft II, the Hellions are the cars-with-flamethrowers. The jump-pack-equipped units are the Reapers.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

On an open plain, I'd expect such devices to be liabilities.

I would expect engagements in an open plain to decrease steadily with TL. Afterall, massed enemies in an open plain are extremely vulnerable to very large explosives and other WMDs.
If you're out in the open, the presence or absence of jetpacks won't make much difference to the orbital nuke platform that's going to vaporize you.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by aesir23

I would expect engagements in an open plain to decrease steadily with TL. Afterall, massed enemies in an open plain are extremely vulnerable to very large explosives and other WMDs.
If you're out in the open, the presence or absence of jetpacks won't make much difference to the orbital nuke platform that's going to vaporize you.

Oh, most certainly. I was mostly just giving a base-case scenario (open plain) to explain that as you get further from this, the setup becomes more useful. Additionally, as this is GURPS, there's always the possibility of a setting where such devices exist and open plain warfare is the rule of the day (due to things like lacking large explosives or extreme range capabilities, having outdated rules of war, etc).