replicating action movie results, by the book

[Johan Larson]

I was recently rewatching "The Terminator" for the umpteenth time, and noticed that in one scene (in TechNoir) the terminator robot suffered what looked like Knockback and a few seconds of Stun after being hit by a shotgun, but in a later scene it was completely unaffected (and didn't even bother to duck) when encountering bursts of M-16 fire at close range. That seemed a bit inconsistent.

Has anyone tried to replicate action movie fights using actual GURPS stats, to figure out whether they can be made to work?

Offhand, I would expect the mismatch to be substantial, since film writers aren't simulationists, but perhaps with a bit of luck some things could be made to line up.

[vierasmarius]

Ultra Tech pg34 has suggestions for cinematic combat against robots. One of them is to have a hit by a shotgun or heavy pistol cause knockback with additional stun effects, as the robot readjusts / checks for damage / whatever. It could make some sense, assuming that the shotgun was loaded with slugs. Otherwise... well, that's Hollywood logic for you! =P

[Juca]

Well, in Hollywood, EVERYONE knows that shotguns are big, mean weapons that send peoples flying everywhere. Rifles? Specially "punny" ones like M16s? They don't do nothing against the evil bad guy! It is always this manner.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Johan Larson

Has anyone tried to replicate action movie fights using actual GURPS stats, to figure out whether they can be made to work?

Offhand, I would expect the mismatch to be substantial, since film writers aren't simulationists, but perhaps with a bit of luck some things could be made to line up.

This is the entire point of GURPS Action!.

[MattStriker]

Assault Rifle: Typically Pi.
Shotgun with slugs: Pi++.

There's a trait somewhere that reduces any piercing damage received by somebody or something by one step, I forget what it's called. Let's assume the T-800, likely having been built with resistance to small arms in mind, has that. That drops the assault rifle's damage down to Pi-. Add a nice bit of HP and HT to the target (which Arnold should definitely have) and it's very unlikely to cause knockdown/stun. The shotgun on the other hand still has a +50% damage mod...

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by MattStriker

Assault Rifle: Typically Pi.
Shotgun with slugs: Pi++.

There's a trait somewhere that reduces any piercing damage received by somebody or something by one step, I forget what it's called. Let's assume the T-800, likely having been built with resistance to small arms in mind, has that. That drops the assault rifle's damage down to Pi-. Add a nice bit of HP and HT to the target (which Arnold should definitely have) and it's very unlikely to cause knockdown/stun. The shotgun on the other hand still has a +50% damage mod...

But the shotgun was grabbed from a squad car and thus extremely unlikely to be loaded with slugs.

As far as I'm concerned, this was not physics, but aesthetics. Shotguns make big booms and should, therefore, in the kind of game where function follows coolness, cause big knockback.

GURPS has optional rules for such silliness. Check out Gun Fu.

[sgtcallistan]

When real physics intervenes, expect a gun that knocks a heavy robot through a window to blow the firer of said weapon out through the opposite wall...

When hollywood rules, the result of any combat action / hit is the one that gets the story to the next event in the coolest way.

This is why Batman can dodge bullets, or in the 1960's never encounter bullets, or in the oughts, wear entirely bulletproof armour.

Reality assumptions are in full effect. Check the game group's assumptions about what should happen ;)

[JohnDouglas]

Originally Posted by sgtcallistan

When real physics intervenes, expect a gun that knocks a heavy robot through a window to blow the firer of said weapon out through the opposite wall...

When hollywood rules, the result of any combat action / hit is the one that gets the story to the next event in the coolest way.

This is why Batman can dodge bullets, or in the 1960's never encounter bullets, or in the oughts, wear entirely bulletproof armour.

Reality assumptions are in full effect. Check the game group's assumptions about what should happen ;)

I recall the first and possibly the best kickback shotgun blast with a T800 occurring at TRCH-NOIR disco tech, in the first terminator movie. I've often speculated why and how this could occur, given the presumed mass of the T-800 which is up for grabs, somewhere between 400 - 600 pounds - https://www.cbr.com/terminator-how-much-weighs/ , but another reason for the kickback could be because it's still in infiltration mode with nearly 100 percent skin cover still attached?

[JohnDouglas]

Originally Posted by sgtcallistan

When real physics intervenes, expect a gun that knocks a heavy robot through a window to blow the firer of said weapon out through the opposite wall...

When hollywood rules, the result of any combat action / hit is the one that gets the story to the next event in the coolest way.

This is why Batman can dodge bullets, or in the 1960's never encounter bullets, or in the oughts, wear entirely bulletproof armour.

Reality assumptions are in full effect. Check the game group's assumptions about what should happen ;)

I recall the first and possibly the best kickback shotgun blast with a T800 occurring at TRCH-NOIR disco tech, in the first terminator movie. I've often speculated why and how this could occur, given the presumed mass of the T-800 which is up for grabs, somewhere between 400 - 600 pounds - https://www.cbr.com/terminator-how-much-weighs/ , but another reason for the kickback could be because it's still in infiltration mode with nearly 100 percent skin cover still attached?

Also raised is Newtons 3rd law of motion, stating that "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" So what ever force was applied to the terminator by the shotgun blast, there has to have been an equal and opposite reactionary force applied to the person wielding the shotgun. JUst the same as if Kyle Reece had used a broom handle to force a 400-600 Lbs terminator out through a window.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

This is the entire point of GURPS Action!.

Originally Posted by Icelander

But the shotgun was grabbed from a squad car and thus extremely unlikely to be loaded with slugs.

As far as I'm concerned, this was not physics, but aesthetics. Shotguns make big booms and should, therefore, in the kind of game where function follows coolness, cause big knockback.

GURPS has optional rules for such silliness. Check out Gun Fu.

Have I mentioned lately that I really appreciate you guys?

ETA: This is by no means limited to the quoted texts; I love this entire community.