[DF] Why isn't Detects as Evil more of a disadvantage?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by b-dog

But if an undead or demon is repelled by holy symbols or damaged by holy water wouldn't they be able to sense or detect good near them. Otherwise they could pick up something holy by accident and then get burned.

Too bad for them. I can't detect that the colorless fluid in the puddle is a deadly contact poison or that the white powder in the villain's sugar jar is arsenic, and I can't see gamma rays. All of these are bad for me. Threats don't come with the implied insurance of knowledge. Natural things might sharpen their senses over time; unnatural ones just are.

Remember that what harms undead or whatever isn't the object but the faith of the person who blessed it and/or is wielding it, being directed actively to the cause of blessing or turning undead. A cleric just standing there doesn't burn or turn vampires. He's just a guy standing there. He has to turn on the holy headlights to affect the undead. He might do so directly, or he might need a fetish that perhaps he can hand to a friend. Either way, it's the act of will and not the person or the item in itself that hurts evil beings.

Undead "detect" these things when some nut comes at them, shaking holy water or brandishing a doodad, and shouting an abjuration. They "detect" these things when the harm happens. What they "detect" is roughly equivalent to pain from injury or fear from threats. The person behind the object is needed for the object to be harmful or threatening, though. Obviously, a non-moron evil guy can avoid things that might be used this way, just as I don't drink random liquids and eat random solids that sort of resemble food. This isn't the same as detection.

[Fish]

b-dog, it sounds as if your objective is to make demons and evil creatures virtually impossible to kill — that is, detect Good beings on sight, detect any and every threat to their being from a great distance away, and so on.

If that's your world setting, so be it, but that's not the way DF seems to be designed.

Originally Posted by Kromm

He has to turn on the holy headlights to affect the undead.

Cf, "Attack of the the Eye Creatures."

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Zed

To someone who holy water would act as corrosive, I would think the mere vapors would cause alarm. .

Only if the vapors are holy as well. In which case a unholy being with that vulnerability which breaths would notice a stinging sensation in his nose or throat as he inhales. But radiation and poison can kill someone with no sensation at all.

[Zed]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Only if the vapors are holy as well. In which case a unholy being with that vulnerability which breaths would notice a stinging sensation in his nose or throat as he inhales. But radiation and poison can kill someone with no sensation at all.

True.

It really comes down to how the stuff works in someone's particular world.

If the (un)holy objects have sensory effects to their enemies or not is a optional setting toggle.

In same scenario, the trigger for a holy symbol erupting in undead burnination could be the deity saying "no, mine! hands off!" or the collective subconscious of the believers or it could be like Kromm described, only empowered by the user and just sit idly otherwise.

As far as the original topic... I don't think DF-styled games (D&D included) revolve around subtly sneaking into dungeons... at least not as their main focus. DF is not Shadowrun. So having a good/bad stink about you that is only detectable by special powers isn't a big deal...

If your campaign is heavy into that whole shadowrun-styled subtly business of sneaking into dungeons and/or macking on succubi, consider allowing those who have the 'stink' to take appropriate disadvantages... supernatural features or whatever... and play those out appropriately. Having a hidden ethical identifier on you seems like a zero-sum trait with good and bad side effects. Like any traits, depending on circumstances of the setting, the down or up sides could vary independent of each other.

[zorg]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Only if the vapors are holy as well.

If they're not, you could theoretically distill the holiness out of the water... just saying. ;)

[Stone Dog]

Originally Posted by zorg

If they're not, you could theoretically distill the holiness out of the water... just saying. ;)

You make water holy in the first place by boiling the Hell out of it, so there is precedent.


heh.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by zorg

If they're not, you could theoretically distill the holiness out of the water... just saying. ;)

In fact, in some Catholic formulations, boiling, freezing, mixing, etc. deconsecrate the water. There are even theologians who would argue that throwing it at someone/something would do this, and that holy water retains its holiness only in the hands of a true believer who treats it with respect. Given that the Catholic model is where fantasy holy water comes from, the GM would be within his rights to say that only clerics can use the stuff, and that even then there's some Religious Ritual roll at -n needed to do anything but shake it from an aspergillum or peacefully dab it onto someone.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by zorg

If they're not, you could theoretically distill the holiness out of the water... just saying. ;)

Sadly, holiness is not a conserved quality.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Fish

b-dog, it sounds as if your objective is to make demons and evil creatures virtually impossible to kill — that is, detect Good beings on sight, detect any and every threat to their being from a great distance away, and so on.

If that's your world setting, so be it, but that's not the way DF seems to be designed.
Cf, "Attack of the the Eye Creatures."

Yes. I have played AD&D and I still tend to think in those terms. In the Monster Manuel it says that demons are repelled by holy (good) artifacts and relics. So I guess I just assume that if a demon is repelled by a PC or item that they would be able assume the PC or item is imbued wiuth the force of good.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Yes. I have played AD&D and I still tend to think in those terms. In the Monster Manuel it says that demons are repelled by holy (good) artifacts and relics. So I guess I just assume that if a demon is repelled by a PC or item that they would be able assume the PC or item is imbued wiuth the force of good.

Yes, they know when they are being True Faithed. But merely "detects as Good" won't do that.