Slinkies, VII, neural interfaces

[Voren]

I'm trying to get a better handle on the capabilities of slinkies and neural interfaces in THS, and I've developed a slight brain strain when looking at THS vs. Changing Times, vs. Ultra Tech. So, for exploration and discussion:

1. In the text, Virtual Interface Implants do not provide slinky access but they do provide neural VR access up to "utterly lifelike" levels (THS145). This gives me a headache, because:

a) DNI technology in Ultra Tech provides VR and slinky/sensie access, but obviously UT is generic and THS is a different world. Besides, Changing Times introduces basic Up/Downslink capacity as a 1 point perk added to a VII or Implant Communicator, so it's not a big deal.

b) Intellectually, it seems that if you can stream "utterly lifelike VR" through a VII you ought to be able to stream slinky input - but this is easily handwaved away.

c) The VII on Changing Times, 57, includes Telecommunication (Cable Jack, Sensie, +80%) [9]. This is bafflingly similar to the cable Augmented Sensory Link (ASL) on page 61, which provides Telecommunication (Cable Jack, Sensie +80%; Temporary Disadvantage, Electrical, -20%) [8]. I think this means that in the case of the VII, the Sensie capability applies to the AI whereas in the case of the ASL it applies to the user. On the one hand, the difference is obvious. On the other hand, the VII is already a direct neural interface and taps the resident AI into the user's senses and surface thoughts.

2. Slinkies. Changing Times appears to introduce two different levels of Slinkies. 'basic slinkies,' versus 'Augmented Sensory Links' that can be used to provide very realistic teleoperation. Is this explored anywhere else in the books? How does this interact with Puppet implants?

3. Coming from a Shadowrun background, I see slinkies, I see neural interfaces, I see fully immersive VR. Any thoughts on whether 'hyper-immersive' VR or slinky technology exists, analogous to addictive Better-than-Life chips, and the like in Shadowrun?

4. Any thoughts on whether fully-immersive VR and high quality slinkies are obvious to the user in THS? Which is to say, can one find oneself in a full VR environment without realizing it? I seem to recall something from Toxic Memes (maybe the Timesicles?) suggesting this was possible.

5. Do Chip Slots (UT216) exist in THS?

In general, I'd welcome thoughts on any of the above, and any other ideas or takes on how to play with the 'neural' technologies in THS.

Thanks!

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Voren

a) DNI technology in Ultra Tech provides VR and slinky/sensie access, but obviously UT is generic and THS is a different world. Besides, Changing Times introduces basic Up/Downslink capacity as a 1 point perk added to a VII or Implant Communicator, so it's not a big deal.

Yeah... As Owen says, Changing Times predates the 4e Tech books. It also attempts to maintain decent backward compatibility with the 3e TS books. In general, GMs have a choice; use the 3e books with Changing Times updates, or switch entirely to the 4e books for tech. Mixing the two sources without recognising that there are inconsistencies is just asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by Voren

b) Intellectually, it seems that if you can stream "utterly lifelike VR" through a VII you ought to be able to stream slinky input - but this is easily handwaved away.

Slinks go a bit deeper into the nervous system than VR, to the point that they even pick up surface thoughts. (I guess that would say that full-immersion VR lets you experience the same stimuli as another person; slinks let you feel that you are the other person.) There's a difference in necessary data transfer rates (and of course in data formats).

Originally Posted by Voren

c) The VII on Changing Times, 57, includes Telecommunication (Cable Jack, Sensie, +80%) [9]. This is bafflingly similar to the cable Augmented Sensory Link (ASL) on page 61, which provides Telecommunication (Cable Jack, Sensie +80%; Temporary Disadvantage, Electrical, -20%) [8]. I think this means that in the case of the VII, the Sensie capability applies to the AI whereas in the case of the ASL it applies to the user. On the one hand, the difference is obvious. On the other hand, the VII is already a direct neural interface and taps the resident AI into the user's senses and surface thoughts.

Yeah, the two implants basically have very similar connectors. But in one case you get it as a feature of your Ally (the VII and its controlling AI); in the other, its plugged direct into you, no mediating AI. So you buy them using two different GURPS mechanisms.

In practise, yes, the net results are much the same.

Originally Posted by Voren

2. Slinkies. Changing Times appears to introduce two different levels of Slinkies. 'basic slinkies,' versus 'Augmented Sensory Links' that can be used to provide very realistic teleoperation. Is this explored anywhere else in the books? How does this interact with Puppet implants?

As I recall, this was an attempt to square some slight discrepancies and uncertainties in the books, and to define a difference between slinks as fairly passive entertainment that lots of (well-off) ordinary folks have, and really powerful slink-grade connections that let you, for example, teleoperate a cyberdoll so perfectly that people won't be able to tell it isn't you. The main game-mechanical difference is that the former is bought with a perk or two; the latter requires rather more points. But it's not really something we've developed much elsewhere, I admit.

Puppet implants are a different matter again; those involve an AI in your VII, or someone linked through a fast link, being able to take control of your voluntary nervous system and motor functions. In game terms, it's treated as Duty disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Voren

3. Coming from a Shadowrun background, I see slinkies, I see neural interfaces, I see fully immersive VR. Any thoughts on whether 'hyper-immersive' VR or slinky technology exists, analogous to addictive Better-than-Life chips, and the like in Shadowrun?

Slinks are meant to be as good, hyper-immersive a simulation of real experience as you could hope to get.

Originally Posted by Voren

4. Any thoughts on whether fully-immersive VR and high quality slinkies are obvious to the user in THS? Which is to say, can one find oneself in a full VR environment without realizing it? I seem to recall something from Toxic Memes (maybe the Timesicles?) suggesting this was possible.

Could happen. Of course, someone has to kidnap you, possibly subvert your AI, possibly actually perform surgery on you...

Originally Posted by Voren

5. Do Chip Slots (UT216) exist in THS?

No. That's old-school cyberpunk. TS assumes that human brain function is qualitatively different to digital computer functions (although it can be simulated on a sufficiently powerful computer). You can't just smoosh neural and digital functions together.

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by Voren

3. Coming from a Shadowrun background, I see slinkies, I see neural interfaces, I see fully immersive VR. Any thoughts on whether 'hyper-immersive' VR or slinky technology exists, analogous to addictive Better-than-Life chips, and the like in Shadowrun?

I always assumed that shadowrun BTLs were, or at least included, "wireheading" direct stimulation of the pleasure centers, bypassing anything as limited as experience. This is certainly technologically possible in THS: human deep brain stimulation to targeted areas is possible now. I expect that by the time of THS, it will be part of treatment for severe depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc, as well as things like Parkinson's. It may be used as a treatment for minor problems, and even as an enhancer of experience. But it's probably not as easy as slotting an a BTL is in SR.

But as we start to actually learn the science of these things, it doesn't really work the way we expect (or hope or fear). Firstly, it's apparently just as effective, or even more so, as a supplement for "normal" drives of food, sex etc, compared to just "hitting the button". Secondly, the primary effect in humans appears to be the relief of anxiety, depression, etc, rather than an induction of positive euphoria.

Maybe if you combine this with Slinky or full VR effects, you get something like a Shadowrun BTL or a Niven wirehead implant, but on the surface they seem less dangerous than current hard drugs.

The net result is that a "deep brain stimulation" abuser looks less like the BTL junkie wasting away in paroxysms of ecstasy, and more like either a hedonist drifting from party to bed to party, or perhaps a shy, dead-end shut-in who's perfectly happy never to leave their VR games and their freezer full of chocolate ice cream.

[Flyndaran]

Strange, all the animal testing I've heard of show direct pleasure stimulation to result in wasting away from a lack of drive to eat or do much of anything.

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Strange, all the animal testing I've heard of show direct pleasure stimulation to result in wasting away from a lack of drive to eat or do much of anything.

This effect is overblown, even in animals. It may be observed when the animal is given a choice between eating and direct stimulation, but not in general.

See, eg, Margules and Old, Science, 1962:
Out of 46 animals tested, only 4 exhibited self-stimulation without stimulated eating. 28 would self-stimulated and ate after stimulation (both self and external). The remainder did not self-stimulate, and did not eat after external stimulation.

You see similar affects in humans, or even more complex desires. I heard of a case where a depressed subject, upon stimulation, expressed a sudden desire to visit the Cologne Cathedral (the study was being done in Cologne).

[Flyndaran]

Well those are far more fascinating and enlightening results.
So direct stimulation is no more mind destroying than powerful drugs and subsequent addictions. Some give up everything for a "fix", while others go back to normal when not "high" (weekend users in effect).