Myriad Magic - Queries of a Lost Newbie

[Idiosyncratic]

O' Great and Mysterious GURPS Forum, hear my call!

That aside, hello there. As you might've guessed from the title of this post, I am indeed a newbie - one with several questions.

As people sometimes do, I am currently homebrewing a setting of my own; whether it'll ever be used is still uncertain, but I like working on it, so all is well. The problem, however, is that I have certain fondness for variety, which leads to problems, mechanics-wise. Mechanics were never my strong point.

I suppose I ought to introduce my setting first.

I'm doing the standard earth-ish fantasy world, albeit one where I will try to shape civilization according to the benefits and drawbacks magic brings. I am currently reasonably set on the idea of it being a roughly TL 3 society, at least in most of the campaigns that I may-or-may-not run therein, with the most played-in cultures being a blend of Ancient Greece, the Baghdad Caliphate as well as Tang and Song China.

Now, being a fan of magic in its many forms, I do, of course, wish to include several kinds thereof in my setting. In the rough sketch o' the metaphysics that I've cooked up so far, magic is a fundamental part of the world. Picturing an area "without" magic is a bit like picturing an area wherein weak interaction is non-existent. This, of course, means that magic plays a part in just about everything, which conveniently ends up looking nearly the same way as earth; I do reserve the right to a little suspension of disbelief. Roleplaying non-carbon based life forms gets awkward so quickly.

Of course, it wouldn't be a fantasy game if everything was the same. There are differences, among which are what we traditionally think of as magic. 'Using' magic is manipulating the way things are, at a very fundamental level, and can be done consciously by certain members of humanoid races - All descended from pre-historic humans - who possess one of a certain group of mutations which first occurred some hundred thousand years ago. This means that all different kinds of magic are ultimately the same - The difference is in the ways they're done.

Leading thaumatologists in the 2400s YOL - Roughly six hundred years after the in-game time - place magicians in the following categories and subcategories:

• Conduits - These magicians personally manipulate magic, somehow 'channelling' it. This appears to take a great toll on their minds, and leaves them prone to exhaustion. According to descriptions provided by test persons, all conduits, they have been placed in two broad categories:
  • Wranglers - Magicians who somehow force magic to bend to their will. Tend to have a strong personality, and are often used for military purposes. They are naturally volatile, but are also capable of some of the most potent forms of magic.
    
  • Advocates - These, no matter which school they belong to, share the trait of coaxing magic to their behaviour. Tend to become priests or, in less civilized environments, witches/shamans. Advocates are unusually flexible in their magic, and tend to be best at manipulating natural processes and phenomenons; healing someone's wounds, making someone like them better, manipulate the movement of the clouds, etc.
• Codifiers - Tend to establish formulae of different kinds which, when activated, cause a specific, predetermined effect. The two, closely related, kinds of Codifiers are as follows:
  • Scribes - Ready specific spells, which cause a very specific effect.
  • Symbolists - Utilize some lexicon of symbols, which they use to bring about the wished result. Tend to be more flexible than scribes, and make quite good enchanters.
• Vessels - 'Store' magical power obtained through natural or unnatural ways. Tend to have better control over their magic than the other groups, but otherwise don't share that many traits. Includes:
  • Beacons - Somehow continuously generates magical attunement of sorts, allowing them to shape reality according to their will. Rather rare, and not very well understood, but seem to run out of 'energy' quite quickly. Often easy to spot, frequently possessing skin far more teal than what is normal for their home region (Living in regions with high ambient magic causes adaptation, which includes a faint teal glow to one's skin).
  • Bargainers - Through some act of ritual or the like, establish a pact with a magical being, obtaining magic in return for some sort of service or payment. Vary a lot, according to the being they've made their pact with, but tend to be stuck in their masters' service.
  • Scavengers - Though their name sounds primitive, Scavengers are actually a rather sophisticated group, who utilize complex and arcane rituals to drain the power from some source or other. Unlike the rest, these don't seem to require any inherent talent, leading to numerous theories about the possibility of all humans becoming mages at some point in the future.

Now, some of these seem rather simple to model, at least to me - Wranglers will use Threshold Magic, Advocates use Ritual Magic, Beacons have magic-only fatigue and can't use their normal fatigue to work magic, and they're very prone to Unnatural Features. I'm not quite sure, however, when it comes to the Scribes...

I realize that I do not need to have every little bit of thaumatological theory explained, as the players will operate with a medieval understanding of it - That is to say, severely limited - but I do like things being internally consistent. The problem is that scribes do, in hindsight, not make a whole lot of sense. I can't seem to figure out how they would work, neither with fluff nor mechanics, which Just Bugs Me. I could scrap them, and let Symbolists be a kind of Conduit instead - The reasoning being that they, instead of coaxing or forcing, imprint a concept on the magic with the use of their symbols - but burn me, I actually like the thought of D&D-ish wizards! With their lugging around spell-books and not being all that practical in actual combat, they do have a certain charm, which I'd like to keep.

I imagine that it would be possible for the Scribes to be a magical style restricted to Symbolists, but I'm not quite sure whether I should try to rescue the concept as separate kind of Codifier. In-character, the difference might not be noticeable, as there has always been a plethora of wrong pseudo-scientific theories and categories which humankind has attempted to apply to nature, but if I'm ever going to use the setting, I'll have to have the rules clear.

As such, I am now turning to this forum. Please help me, O' Most (Un)Holy and Inspired GMs and Players - How can I stop my magical system from unravelling? Which actions should I take?

P.S: My dearest apologies for the multiple and inconsistent uses of magic, as well as the adaptation of normal words to cover magical concepts - Describing thaumatological theory using a language which isn't adapted to the existence of magic isn't that easy, and ends up looking a bit clumsy.

[Ulzgoroth]

Symbolists might resemble syntactic magic users? (That's from Thaumatology, which you desperately need if you don't have it, though it sounds as if you do.)

Scribes sound like Vancian casters with extra-narrow spells. I'm pretty sure there's a build for Vancian effects, but I'm not sure how it worked. Should be Modular Abilities to build the 'spell slots' probably.

[Idiosyncratic]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Symbolists might resemble syntactic magic users? (That's from Thaumatology, which you desperately need if you don't have it, though it sounds as if you do.)

Scribes sound like Vancian casters with extra-narrow spells. I'm pretty sure there's a build for Vancian effects, but I'm not sure how it worked. Should be Modular Abilities to build the 'spell slots' probably.

I do indeed have Thaumatology, as well as the other 'essential' magic books (Basic Set, Fantasy, Magic, Magical Styles - I have some others, but they're no really related to magic), and I have indeed considered flexible magic for the Symbolists - Indeed, not much else could be used. I don't suppose there'd be anyone here who've experimented with multiple lexica according to magical styles, as per Thaumatology: Magical Styles? I think it might work, and it'd certainly make it easier to compare tribal shamans to imperial wizard-magistrates, but I'm already experimenting with a lot of stuff with potential for imbalance - Every little bit of advice helps.

As for the Scribes, what you suggest does sound interesting. I am, however, a bit reluctant to utilize Vancian magic. It has always been one of my main gripes with D&D, my previous system of choice, as it never made sense to me. I'm sure that it fit very well into Vance's books, which I haven't had the chance to read yet, but I doubt that it'd fit into my world - I'm trying to go the full ConWorld route, and additional things to explain is not on the top of my list ^_^

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Idiosyncratic

As for the Scribes, what you suggest does sound interesting. I am, however, a bit reluctant to utilize Vancian magic. It has always been one of my main gripes with D&D, my previous system of choice, as it never made sense to me. I'm sure that it fit very well into Vance's books, which I haven't had the chance to read yet, but I doubt that it'd fit into my world - I'm trying to go the full ConWorld route, and additional things to explain is not on the top of my list ^_^

Can you expand on the description of scribal magic, either first-principles or by comparison to Vancian? The description you gave would fit a D&D wizard almost perfectly, so I'm not sure what you're going for.

[Idiosyncratic]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Can you expand on the description of scribal magic, either first-principles or by comparison to Vancian? The description you gave would fit a D&D wizard almost perfectly, so I'm not sure what you're going for.

Well, that's the trouble. I'm having trouble defining the scribe in a way that is consistent with the way magic oughta work. Having a certain allotment of spells per day just doesn't make sense - What decides whether a spell is level 1 or 2?

Other than that, yes, Vancian magic does seem to fit - It was mainly the daily allotment thing I was bothered with. Of course, there has to be some other limiting factor, but I guess that can be worked out. Something has to make more sense.

Also, I don't suppose there's any way to change the tags after I've made this thread? I'd like to standardize them, but alas, 'The best way to ensure that nobody reads a topic, is to sticky it.' I really did read it, though, I'd just forgotten about it by the time I signed up and made the post. Then I went back to check stickies, and, well... Woops.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Idiosyncratic

Well, that's the trouble. I'm having trouble defining the scribe in a way that is consistent with the way magic oughta work. Having a certain allotment of spells per day just doesn't make sense - What decides whether a spell is level 1 or 2?

Other than that, yes, Vancian magic does seem to fit - It was mainly the daily allotment thing I was bothered with. Of course, there has to be some other limiting factor, but I guess that can be worked out. Something has to make more sense.

I suspect that a 'Vancian' build with different preparation requirements than 'once per day, after a full night's rest' would be straightforward once the basics of building one-shot rechargeable spell slots are worked out. And spell levels obviously aren't inherent in GURPS...

EDIT: Apparently there's a sidebar on Thaumatology p56 you might want to look at, if you haven't.

Originally Posted by Idiosyncratic

Also, I don't suppose there's any way to change the tags after I've made this thread? I'd like to standardize them, but alas, 'The best way to ensure that nobody reads a topic, is to sticky it.' I really did read it, though, I'd just forgotten about it by the time I signed up and made the post. Then I went back to check stickies, and, well... Woops.

Do you see an 'Edit Tags' link down on the tag bar when viewing the thread? If it's there, it might help.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Idiosyncratic

Well, that's the trouble. I'm having trouble defining the scribe in a way that is consistent with the way magic oughta work. Having a certain allotment of spells per day just doesn't make sense - What decides whether a spell is level 1 or 2?

One approach is to have them "store" spells at a rate of one hour per second it takes to cast them normally. When they later cast them, it is at no fatigue cost (because the fatigue was spent originally casting them into storage). There should be a maximum storage capacity.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Idiosyncratic

O' Great and Mysterious GURPS Forum, hear my call!

That aside, hello there. As you might've guessed from the title of this post, I am indeed a newbie - one with several questions.

As people sometimes do, I am currently homebrewing a setting of my own; whether it'll ever be used is still uncertain, but I like working on it, so all is well. The problem, however, is that I have certain fondness for variety, which leads to problems, mechanics-wise. Mechanics were never my strong point.

My suggestion: Play with one magic system first in a warm up campaign. Get used to the game's mechanics before introducing a wide spectrum of different magicks.