Social Engineering

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Should I just stop trying to figure out what Wealth means? I would have sworn that it had been labeled as essentially a social advantage, repeatedly.

Please reread. Yes it is a social advantage, and note that I didn't say otherwise. However, it doesn't deal with the interpersonal dynamics side of "social" (which is what "engineering" blatantly covers) but with the economic side of "social" (which is huge . . . big enough for its own book, whence my GURPS Economics/GURPS Money quip). This book isn't "all social rules, ever" but "interpersonal dynamics rules," much as Martial Arts covered all low-tech, muscle-powered combat but left firearms combat for Gun Fu and Tactical Shooting.

[Brandy]

I am very excited about the prospect of this product! When I was tinkering with my own set of house rules and clarifications for these very issues, I was trying to accomplish a few things:

1) To unify the mechanics for short term reactions (reaction rolls and the like) with long-term relationships (contacts, favors, and other lasting interactions with NPCs).
2) To identify with greater specificity how I wanted to handle social skill effects on PCs (from both NPCs and other PCs).
3) Identify a couple-dozen techniques that derived from social and influence skills and by this identify specifically what could be done with these skills other than modifying the reaction number itself (there's a lot of meat already on the bone here in basic; I was trying to identify what the default usage of each skill was and what other things could be done). By doing this, I wanted Diplomacy-guy to feel like a very different character with different capabilities from Intimidation-guy or Fast-Talk-guy; essentially protecting more than just one niche for characters with a social influence focus. One of the things I liked here was establishing baseline times for how long it took to do various social things and differentiate a one-second in-combat use of intimidation from an hour-long good-cop/ bad-cop scenario use of the same skill.
4) Try and find a way (I never really got close to anything I really liked) to use these social mechanics as part of a morale system in combat, so that players would have some ability to control or influence when NPCs would stand down or flee (as well as being able to command or rally their allies). This is complicated because it needed to have opposed skills -- the NPC enemies fear of or loyalty to their own commanders needed to play a part here as well as whatever influence the players were trying to exert through the PCs.

If the product handles any part of this (and it seems as though at least some of the above is in play), I will be thrilled to buy it.

If there is a play test, I would be really, really exited to be able to apply.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Should I just stop trying to figure out what Wealth means? I would have sworn that it had been labeled as essentially a social advantage, repeatedly.

GURPS Social Engineering != GURPS In-Depth Discussion of All Social Traits. There are plenty of traits with the little handshake icon that won't be discussed in-depth in the book, because they don't fit into the theme of interpersonal interaction. GURPS Economics would be another book (and I don't mean that sarcastically -- I think it'd sell, if done right).

EDIT: Ninja'd by da boss!

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

There are plenty of traits with the little handshake icon that won't be discussed in-depth in the book, because they don't fit into the theme of interpersonal interaction. GURPS Economics would be another book (and I don't mean that sarcastically -- I think it'd sell, if done right).

Agreed! I also think a GURPS : Kulturekamp on how to model and stat societies would be KWEL!

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Agreed! I also think a GURPS : Kulturekamp on how to model and stat societies would be KWEL!

Well it's not GURPS but the FASA Star Trek RPG had an interesting system for doing just that 8)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Agreed! I also think a GURPS : Kulturekamp on how to model and stat societies would be KWEL!

Take a look at GURPS City Stats for a first step in that direction.

Bill Stoddard

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Zed

I declare All-Out-Defense (Stubborn and Unreasonable) against being convinced social game mechanics are a good thing in gaming.

~Zed

(ironic post meant to be ironic)

:D

Roleplaying in General is probably a better place for this topic, and in fact it has already been discussed there.

[Gizensha]

Originally Posted by Zed

I declare All-Out-Defense (Stubborn and Unreasonable) against being convinced social game mechanics are a good thing in gaming.

~Zed

(ironic post meant to be ironic)

:D

Although I'd love to see negotiation (Preferably that would be able to be applied equally well to haggling over the price of an antique as negotiating a peace treaty) be given as in depth a mechanical coverage as, say, the Combat Lite rules?

[Fwibos]

Originally Posted by Gizensha

Although I'd love to see negotiation (Preferably that would be able to be applied equally well to haggling over the price of an antique as negotiating a peace treaty) be given as in depth a mechanical coverage as, say, the Combat Lite rules?

As much as it irks me to say this, one of the things that Exalted does really well is avoid the question of what a person feels/doesn't feel for someon It's usually at the peace treaty scale rather than antiques, but it offers well-done mechanics. Since my games have a certain amount of social interaction, I end up using the GURPS modifiers on PC skills often. I look forward to an in depth book on the subject!

[Refplace]

My wish list or "things I throw out there in hopes there at least considered and not overlooked"
1 on 1 negotiation in a variety of circumstances.
1 on many for things like Public Speaking, Bards, Musical or Art , etc
Exotic interactions such as with those who require an advantage to use social skills with. Examples are Spirit, Plant, Animal Empathy.
Ideas for a GM to list and stat out what kind of things exotic beings want or otherwise would react to. Exotic beings include SciFi and Fantasy of course.

Edit: Oh and a few techniques for some of the social skills would be cool.
Thought about it before and seen ideas posted but the Tracking technique thread reminded me.
Sure its not effective to take a lot of techniques but buying up 1 or two could seriously help define the Style of someone who does such social manipulation.
And of course various ideas for techniques also can give us ideas on how to do certain things and the penalties or bonuses applicable in certain circumstances.