TK and Telegraphing attacks...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

I mean, the "the reason we roll to hit is because you're assumed to be defending and not just standing there like a statue" part does not sound like GURPS where attacking and defending are separate rolls, but if you can cite it, I'll take it seriously.

What do you suppose a missed roll to hit with a staff or other pole means?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What do you suppose a missed roll to hit with a staff or other pole means?

It means that the intended blow failed to strike the target with enough force to inflict 0 or more points of damage for reasons other than an act of prevention specific to the blow in question..

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

It means that the intended blow failed to strike the target with enough force to inflict 0 or more points of damage for reasons other than an act of prevention specific to the blow in question..

Ahem, that would mean that such misses still inflict whatever Follow-up the attack has.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

It means that the intended blow failed to strike the target with enough force to inflict 0 or more points of damage for reasons other than an act of prevention specific to the blow in question..

Nope, a miss in GURPS is a miss, otherwise that Deathtouch or other follow-up would happen regardless.

Now what this means is that if the GURPS model you're using doesn't match reality, like in this case, then you're using the wrong model, which is why I keep telling you not to compare apples to oranges.

In other words, to model a staff/spear sweep which will automatically hit someone standing in a hex unless a defense is made the attack is described as a parriable/retreatable Area Attack.

But again, if you're sweeping a hex 100 yards away with your TK staff, that's harder to gauge than doing it 1 yard away.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Nope, a miss in GURPS is a miss, otherwise that Deathtouch or other follow-up would happen regardless.

Now what this means is that if the GURPS model you're using doesn't match reality, like in this case, then you're using the wrong model, which is why I keep telling you not to compare apples to oranges.

In other words, to model a staff/spear sweep which will automatically hit someone standing in a hex unless a defense is made the attack is described as a parriable/retreatable Area Attack.

But again, if you're sweeping a hex 100 yards away with your TK staff, that's harder to gauge than doing it 1 yard away.

Range penalties in Mêlée seem to be below the GURPS resolution level. Otherwise, it would turn out that it's harder to hit a tank at 100 yards with a force sword (assuming it can be made 100yds long) than with a flamethrower or ATGM (both of which explicitly don't suffer from range penalties). Really, if ATGM and flamer penalties fall below the RADAR, then so should Mêlée weapons. Probably has to do with the fact that range penalties are non-linear in nature.

[reb]

how about a long reach melee weapon like a three section staff that can be swung by it's end like a very long flail?
how about a whip or a kusari??
a kusari could be up to 6-8' in length.
same with a whip.
what do you do.take the max distance you can reach with a weapon and use that to make range modifiers with?
that seems like a lot of number crunching every time a player uses a extended reach melee weapon.
is the range mods specifically called for in these cases?
since the user would be trained in it's use.
i can see penalizing someone who has no or little training in it.

also what does RAW stand for???

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Range penalties in Mêlée seem to be below the GURPS resolution level.

That's the thing, they fall below the resolution level as long as you generally keep it below 2 yards, when you end up doing melee at 10 yards it breaks down and if you get out to 100 yards if you aren't applying range penalties you're doing it wrong and are now running a silly setting.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Otherwise, it would turn out that it's harder to hit a tank at 100 yards with a force sword (assuming it can be made 100yds long) than with a flamethrower or ATGM (both of which explicitly don't suffer from range penalties). Really, if ATGM and flamer penalties fall below the RADAR, then so should Mêlée weapons. Probably has to do with the fact that range penalties are non-linear in nature.

No, it has to do with the fact that the Jet "mechanics" are flaky and badly written, they should have been written as modified area attacks, something Kromm is quite capable of doing well if he hadn't been busy with everything else.

[davidtmoore]

Originally Posted by reb

what does RAW stand for???

Rules-As-Written. It's used to distinguish between a house-rule or suggestion and a published rule.

As in, "In my Wild West game, the PCs all have Gunslinger and Weapon Master (Pistol), although I realise it's not RAW to take Weapon Master for guns."

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by reb

how about a long reach melee weapon like a three section staff that can be swung by it's end like a very long flail?
how about a whip or a kusari??
a kusari could be up to 6-8' in length.
same with a whip.
what do you do.take the max distance you can reach with a weapon and use that to make range modifiers with?
that seems like a lot of number crunching every time a player uses a extended reach melee weapon.
is the range mods specifically called for in these cases?
since the user would be trained in it's use.
i can see penalizing someone who has no or little training in it.

also what does RAW stand for???

In the RAW, rules as written, there is no stated range penalty for hitting something with a whip or kusari 1-2 yards away vs. 3 yards away.

Personally, I feel that the -1 penalty for hitting something at a range of 3 yards should clearly apply, others are saying it's below the resolution of the melee system, but that's a side discussion.


The main point I'm making on this thread is that the RAW is silent on melee attacks beyond that 3 yard range and that melee attacks at 10 yards or 100 yards, whether it be with TK or due to a really long weapon, should have normal range penalties applied to them, which is only common sense unless you're running a silly campaign setting.


I'm also stating that the current rules for Jet and sweep attacks with things like long staffed weapons don't match the reality of the 100% guaranteed area attack hit of anything standing in the multiple hexes which get completely swept by a jet or sweeping staff attack, but clarifying that for the RAW would require that Kromm address the issue in his non-existent free time.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Ahem, that would mean that such misses still inflict whatever Follow-up the attack has.

Even a failure to inflict 0 or more damage where the blow falls short due to misjudging the distance?

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

In the RAW, rules as written, there is no stated range penalty for hitting something with a whip or kusari 1-2 yards away vs. 3 yards away.
[...]
The main point I'm making on this thread is that the RAW is silent on melee attacks beyond that 3 yard range and that melee attacks at 10 yards or 100 yards, whether it be with TK or due to a really long weapon, should have normal range penalties applied to them, which is only common sense unless you're running a silly campaign setting.

Perhaps the reason that the rules are silent on range penalties for melee attacks is that melee attacks have Reach instead of range? Ergo, there is no range to penalize. It's a quibble, but it's a quibble that Sean expressly wrote into the rules, compactly detailed on p.B112 under "Melee Attack".