Why is Propaganda a skill?

[Ubiquitous]

I see the point of the skill, and the purpose and the meaning, but it just seems like Propaganda is 'Public Speaking w/ Media Outlet'.

Why not just have Public Speaking, since it already includes influences via speech and whatnot, and have penalties for large groups of people to influence that media facilities, political mudslingers/lobbyists, cultural attaches and whatnot would cancel out? Propaganda has the distinction of using 'indirect' influence', but it seems like Public Speaking has the same potential for subtlety and whatnot.

Thoughts?

[gjc8]

They cover different things, though they are supplemental.

Propaganda covers the whole campaign, possibly including a variety of tactics and multiple speeches.

Public Speaking covers delivering the speech itself.

Think of Propaganda as Strategy/Tactics, and Public Speaking as the weapon skill.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by gjc8

They cover different things, though they are supplemental.

Propaganda covers the whole campaign, possibly including a variety of tactics and multiple speeches.

Public Speaking covers delivering the speech itself.

Think of Propaganda as Strategy/Tactics, and Public Speaking as the weapon skill.

The problem with this*, though, is that it seems like Public Speaking already involves Propaganda. Since it involves Comedy or Speeches, than someone with a high enough skill obviously has concepts of subtlety and has a good hand for knowing an audience; Propaganda just seems like generalizing this for a wide-spread public which, while different from Public Speaking, seems like a sub-set (like how Armoury: Small Arms makes bullets and fixes guns: two closes related but different actions).

*EDIT: MY problem with this.

[Johnny Angel]

I think the strategy/tactics analogy was on the right track.

IMO, propaganda is more like strategy and public speaking is more similar to tactics.

[I think] Propaganda involves things such as "wearing a red tie with blue socks will send the wrong message to the audience" and things like "you should give speech A at location X before giving speech B at location Y to maximize the effectiveness of speech C."

[warmachine]

Depending on the technology level and the audience, spreading an idea need not involve speaking to more than one person at a time at all. Plenty of people receive their information via printed and online media. Even using television, Propaganda is the skill of manipulating what the editors decide should be broadcast, not speaking yourself in front of a camera. I'd say speaking could be eliminated entirely except telephones are too commonly used. Propaganda is convincing influencers to spread your idea, including those who know nothing about you, despite competition, Public Speaking is convincing or entertaining the people watching you now.

[blacksmith]

I would say propaganda is about creating a message or narrative that you want to convince people of, and then other skills like public speaking can disseminate the message.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

I would say propaganda is about creating a message or narrative that you want to convince people of, and then other skills like public speaking can disseminate the message.

Often Writing.

Propaganda is a skill for Madison Avenue executives and other devious mind-game players (some of them working for military high commands, churches, or government agencies). They may be vague, messy, mumbling types; doesn't matter. They do design; other people can always be hired to perform the delivery. Sometimes, the other people make speeches (Public Speaking), sometimes they perform in little thirty-second movies (Performance, under the direction of someone with Group Performance); sometimes, they may even sing, or paint pictures. It's the difference between Engineer (Automobile) and Driving.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Often Writing.

Or visual imagery, or song composing and performing or...

[trooper6]

Public Speaking and Propaganda are totally different in my mind.

Public Speaking is about speaking to people directly, and gets all sorts of modifiers for Charisma, Voice, etc. Hitler had public speaking.

Propaganda is indirect influence through media, and doesn't get bonuses for Charisma, nor penalties for Shy. Goebbels had Propaganda.

One of my PCs is engaging in a long term propaganda war against Megalos...but he is being very careful to distance his public speaking personal from the propagandist persona.

The two skills are really different.

Now if you don't want Propaganda in your games, don't use it. If you want group public speaking in an immediate way (which Propaganda doesn't do)--use the Bard powers instead.

[Refplace]

I agree with all the above.
If they were the same skill then anyone good at propaganda would be a good public speaker too. Public Speaking is about a specific kind of delivery of the message or maybe comedy act.
Same as Singing or playing a musical instrument.
Propaganda is about constructing the message itself so that it delivers the message you want. Like Writing or composing.
Someone with Propaganda could still delivery the message using a Speech and default Public Speaking or hire someone else to do it for them.
Either way the message will be more effective for being designed for the targeted audience and purpose.