overlapping disadvantages? - Page 2

Kelly Pedersen · 03-20-2010, 05:39 PM

To answer the general question, you should not take disadvantages that overlap heavily. The golden rule for disadvantages is that "a disadvantage that doesn't limit you isn't a disadvantage", and two disads compelling identical behavior is a good example of this.

That said, I think in the specific example of Sense of Duty (Nature) and Code of Honor (Elven), the disadvantages are sufficiently different that you can take them together. This is how I'd interpret it:

Sense of Duty (Nature) covers the natural world. That is, living things that aren't sapient tool-users, and living creatures' environment as it supports life. Someone with this Sense of Duty would be compelled to act to protect the natural world from non-natural threats: humanoids, spirits, supernatural creatures, magic, etc. I'd probably rule that someone with this SoD doesn't have to, say, conduct guerrilla campaigns to burn down existing cities or uproot tilled fields - once those locations have existed for any length of time, they have their own ecosystem that probably counts as "nature" enough to not enrage an elf. On the other hand, someone with this SoD should be doing their best to prevent existing natural spaces from being converted by non-natural forces. They'd be opposed to an old forest being cut down to plant new crops, for example.

Code of Honor (Elven) says that elves should "Never allow needless harm to trees or animals, and always seek to live with elegance and style. The world should be more beautiful and full of life for your efforts." That means that an elf has to do more than just let the natural world work itself out. If, for example, they see a rabbit being chased by a fox, and they have some meat handy that they could spare, they should prevent the fox catching the rabbit, and allow it to eat the meat instead, thus preventing harm to both animals. The clauses about living with elegance and creating beauty, on the other hand, compel an elf to not just protect nature as-is, but to actively enhance it according to their aesthetic sense. An elven forest is beautiful - full of huge trees, little underbrush, beautiful little glades where the sunlight shines through the leaves onto crystal pools, etc. - all because the elves deliberately tend the forest to be that way, encouraging trees to grow taller, clearing away dead wood and discouraging "ugly" plants, and artistically arranging those little groves.

A good way to look at it is to consider how a character with one disadvantage but not the other would behave.
Someone with only Sense of Duty (Nature) would probably resemble a wild hermit or druid. They care about the natural world, encouraging its growth and protecting it from harm, but they don't care if the result looks attractive to humans. A forest under the care of such an individual might be a wild, tangled mass, full of fungus and poisonous berries and ravenous bears - but it will be full of life.

Someone with only the Elven Code of Honor, on the other hand, doesn't particularly care about the "natural world". They like plants and animals, but their primary concern is for attractive plants and animals. An area run by such a character would probably resemble something along the lines of a botanical garden/zoo, with lots of beautiful plants and animals arranged about in the most aesthetically pleasing and convenient way.

dds_ks · 03-20-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

What does it mean to "betray humanity"?

Well, I'm not a native speaker. But my next line in the original posting should make clear what I meant:
"... which is exactly the same, but adds 'and I'm proud of it'."

David Johnston2 · 03-20-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dds_ks

Well, I'm not a native speaker. But my next line in the original posting should make clear what I meant:
"... which is exactly the same, but adds 'and I'm proud of it'."

It would not and should not be exactly the same. A sense of duty is a motivation. A Code is a set of specific rules.

roguebfl · 03-20-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It would not and should not be exactly the same. A sense of duty is a motivation. A Code is a set of specific rules.

but both are Self imposed disadvantages, they are both motivations. it's Duty, not Sense of Duty that can be Combined here.

in the OP case When the two are effectively the same, then the lesser one becomes a Quirk, that will at the "and proud of it" aspect.

but not all of them.

he is a good example of have 3 and they all full Price

Duty (Military), CoH (Solider) SoD (Unit).

David Johnston2 · 03-20-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roguebfl

but both are Self imposed disadvantages, .

No they aren't. Only Code of Honor is self-imposed.

chris1982 · 03-20-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dds_ks

Well, I'm not a native speaker. But my next line in the original posting should make clear what I meant:
"... which is exactly the same, but adds 'and I'm proud of it'."

Thats simply a quirk. "Is proud of his Duty!"

03-20-2010, 05:39 PM	#1
Kelly Pedersen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada	Re: overlapping disadvantages? To answer the general question, you should not take disadvantages that overlap heavily. The golden rule for disadvantages is that "a disadvantage that doesn't limit you isn't a disadvantage", and two disads compelling identical behavior is a good example of this. That said, I think in the specific example of Sense of Duty (Nature) and Code of Honor (Elven), the disadvantages are sufficiently different that you can take them together. This is how I'd interpret it: Sense of Duty (Nature) covers the natural world. That is, living things that aren't sapient tool-users, and living creatures' environment as it supports life. Someone with this Sense of Duty would be compelled to act to protect the natural world from non-natural threats: humanoids, spirits, supernatural creatures, magic, etc. I'd probably rule that someone with this SoD doesn't have to, say, conduct guerrilla campaigns to burn down existing cities or uproot tilled fields - once those locations have existed for any length of time, they have their own ecosystem that probably counts as "nature" enough to not enrage an elf. On the other hand, someone with this SoD should be doing their best to prevent existing natural spaces from being converted by non-natural forces. They'd be opposed to an old forest being cut down to plant new crops, for example. Code of Honor (Elven) says that elves should "Never allow needless harm to trees or animals, and always seek to live with elegance and style. The world should be more beautiful and full of life for your efforts." That means that an elf has to do more than just let the natural world work itself out. If, for example, they see a rabbit being chased by a fox, and they have some meat handy that they could spare, they should prevent the fox catching the rabbit, and allow it to eat the meat instead, thus preventing harm to both animals. The clauses about living with elegance and creating beauty, on the other hand, compel an elf to not just protect nature as-is, but to actively enhance it according to their aesthetic sense. An elven forest is beautiful - full of huge trees, little underbrush, beautiful little glades where the sunlight shines through the leaves onto crystal pools, etc. - all because the elves deliberately tend the forest to be that way, encouraging trees to grow taller, clearing away dead wood and discouraging "ugly" plants, and artistically arranging those little groves. A good way to look at it is to consider how a character with one disadvantage but not the other would behave. Someone with only Sense of Duty (Nature) would probably resemble a wild hermit or druid. They care about the natural world, encouraging its growth and protecting it from harm, but they don't care if the result looks attractive to humans. A forest under the care of such an individual might be a wild, tangled mass, full of fungus and poisonous berries and ravenous bears - but it will be full of life. Someone with only the Elven Code of Honor, on the other hand, doesn't particularly care about the "natural world". They like plants and animals, but their primary concern is for attractive plants and animals. An area run by such a character would probably resemble something along the lines of a botanical garden/zoo, with lots of beautiful plants and animals arranged about in the most aesthetically pleasing and convenient way.