[DF] Holy water seems to have no purpose

[Bruno]

So far, I haven't found a single DF monster with a Weakness, Revulsion, Vulnerability, or Dread of Holy water, despite its description in the DF 1 equipment list as that being it's only use. Demons and undead in GURPS Magic and GURPS Fantasy are conspicuously missing these traits as well.

So, some questions for the audience:

What classes of monster would you assign these sorts of traits to? All Truely Evil creatures? Undead only, regardless of Evilness? Demons only, same footnote? Different degrees or combinations of traits based on creature type?

I'm thinking of Weaknesses for Undead, and perhaps Revulsion or Dread for demons.

What other uses can you think of for holy water and related substances (holy oils, incense, etc)?
I can see sprinking one "charge" of holy water per hex being good for a +1 to rolls to exorcise a cursed area or reconsecrate a dark altar. If not per hex, then perhaps per yard radius.
It also seems appropriate for area spells of protection - same idea, one bottle per hex.

It's too cheap for Holy characters to use it at a one-bottle per spell benefit unless it's a really trivial benefit - one FP off on the spell makes it 3x the cost of one point of Power Item, but doesn't require a power item of great value to have 20 of them. And the Holy character can get them half price (as per DF2) in town anyways. I would say one per spell, and only on ceremonial castings perhaps.

Any other ideas?

[b-dog]

Holy water should cause damage to demons and undead according to old school dungeon delving.

[lexington]

Treat it like a powerful acid (1d cor) that only works on demons? The rule say it can be used as a "grenade".

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Holy water should cause damage to demons and undead according to old school dungeon delving.

Indeed; DF7 says as much. That there are no specific effects listed for it (how much damage it does, how long it lasts) is a clear oversight. I'd say that it burns monsters vulnerable to it as though it were acid.

[ThomasSmith]

I know a game in which "faithful" undead take no damage from holy water if it was consecrated by a priest of their faith, which seems an amusing and appropriate rule to me. Never benefits mindless undead.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by ThomasSmith

I know a game in which "faithful" undead take no damage from holy water if it was consecrated by a priest of their faith, which seems an amusing and appropriate rule to me. Never benefits mindless undead.

"Hah! Holy Water doesn't work, I'm Catholic!"

'That's okay, I used Hindu oils and ointments.'

"WHAT?!" *burns up*

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Holy water should cause damage to demons and undead according to old school dungeon delving.

Nah, be more creative. holy water is sanctified. Using it allows a Good Cleric in an evil temple to have access to his spells for 1d minutes if taken outside the evil zone, 1d turns if taken inside.

(This deals with a practicality flaw in DF. Old school clerics could cast spells in enemy strongholds. DF clerics cannot do this period. It seems rather contrary to the genre to deny a cleric spells at the place where his spells are most needed.)

Offensively Splashing Holy Water on any Evil foe, puts the Foe effectively in a sanctity region for the same period. Great way to neutralize the mad High Priestess of the God of Murder's ability to throw spells.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Nah, be more creative. holy water is sanctified. Using it allows a Good Cleric in an evil temple to have access to his spells for 1d minutes if taken outside the evil zone, 1d turns if taken inside.

(This deals with a practicality flaw in DF. Old school clerics could cast spells in enemy strongholds. DF clerics cannot do this period.

Well, usually they can. I mean if someone was a Satanist priest (with GURPS clerical spells) his spells would work (without a relic) everywhere on Earth except The Church of the Holy Sepulchre, a chunk of Bethlehem, the Dome of the Rock and Mount Sinai. In regular churches he'd be at a -5. And in just plain castles belonging to Christians, he'd only be penalized if he happened to be standing right in the still regularly used chapel.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Bruno

So far, I haven't found a single DF monster with a Weakness, Revulsion, Vulnerability, or Dread of Holy water, despite its description in the DF 1 equipment list as that being it's only use. Demons and undead in GURPS Magic and GURPS Fantasy are conspicuously missing these traits as well.

So, some questions for the audience:

What classes of monster would you assign these sorts of traits to? All Truely Evil creatures? Undead only, regardless of Evilness?

Anything that could be repelled by your flavour of True Faith. Basically it's bottled Faith.

[b-dog]

There is no mention of touching a demon or undead with a holy symbol either. Maybe it would do 1 HP damage per level of Holiness or Power Investiture (Holy)? Who knows.

I think the biggest mistake made by the DF series is that the AD&D Dungeon Masters guide was not the starting point. This book is perhaps the most complete book on dungeon delving ever IMO.